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you think that would be more reliable than SQL Server? MSMQ can't even begin to duplicate the functionality of SQL Server and should never be thought of as a backup to or replacement for it. You are better off looking at valid HA or DR means for SQL Server such as Clustering, Database Mirroring, (possibly replication), Log shipping etc. But your goals and business needs will dictate the actual methods used. -- Andrew J. Kelly SQL MVP Solid Quality Mentors [quoted text, click to view] "Andy" <kc2ine@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:u%23%23CdMEHIHA.1316@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > Hi, > If I'd like to ensure that in case sql server is down user still can > access and write the the data what option do I have? Since writing is more > important I thought about MSMQ tu put between the server and the > application, but what about reading? Any other techiniques? > In case of MSMQ, can you suggest any example how to use it with SQL > server? > thanks >
Hi,
If I'd like to ensure that in case sql server is down user still can access and write the the data what option do I have? Since writing is more important I thought about MSMQ tu put between the server and the application, but what about reading? Any other techiniques? In case of MSMQ, can you suggest any example how to use it with SQL server? thanks
What version of SQL do you have?
Did you consider Clustering and/or DB Mirroring (in SQL 2005)? Ayad Shammout [quoted text, click to view] "Andy" <kc2ine@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:u%23%23CdMEHIHA.1316@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > Hi, > If I'd like to ensure that in case sql server is down user still can > access and write the the data what option do I have? Since writing is more > important I thought about MSMQ tu put between the server and the > application, but what about reading? Any other techiniques? > In case of MSMQ, can you suggest any example how to use it with SQL > server? > thanks >
We had this problem a couple of times a day when I worked at Microsoft
University. Our registration SQL Server was on campus (about 10 miles away)--accessed over a connection via dialup modems. When someone drove through the parking garage under the building, the antennas hitting the raised ceiling took down the network. So, (to make a long story short), I setup a local SQL Server to act as a repository of orders so if the main system went down, I would fall back on this second system. When the campus link was restored we would sync the two databases. SQL Server can do this too with a Failover partner but IIRC this is not supported by Express. So, what do you do? Well, another approach would be to use a local SQL Server Compact edition as a backup repository or as a base subscriber. That is, you could either fall back on the SQLCe database or use it as the client-side primary database and synchronize with the host database as it becomes available. This can be done with Merge Replication, RDA or with Sync Services (just now coming on line). hth -- ____________________________________ William (Bill) Vaughn Author, Mentor, Consultant, Dad, Grandpa Microsoft MVP INETA Speaker www.betav.com www.betav.com/blog/billva Please reply only to the newsgroup so that others can benefit. This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. __________________________________ Visit www.hitchhikerguides.net to get more information on my latest book: Hitchhiker's Guide to Visual Studio and SQL Server (7th Edition) and Hitchhiker's Guide to SQL Server 2005 Compact Edition (EBook) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [quoted text, click to view] "Andy" <kc2ine@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:u%23%23CdMEHIHA.1316@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > Hi, > If I'd like to ensure that in case sql server is down user still can > access and write the the data what option do I have? Since writing is more > important I thought about MSMQ tu put between the server and the > application, but what about reading? Any other techiniques? > In case of MSMQ, can you suggest any example how to use it with SQL > server? > thanks >
I have 2005 version. I was thinking about mirroring also,
but management wants to have some kind of user separation from SQL server like web service (I don't want to do this) or messaging services like MSMQ or SQL 2005 server Broker Agent. All these for 1) asynchronous access and 2) for security. So I'm a little confused what to use. What would you guys suggested? thanks [quoted text, click to view] "Andrew J. Kelly" <sqlmvpnooospam@shadhawk.com> wrote in message news:O9IdyLJHIHA.6044@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > What happens then when the server that is running msmq goes down? Why > would you think that would be more reliable than SQL Server? MSMQ can't > even begin to duplicate the functionality of SQL Server and should never > be thought of as a backup to or replacement for it. You are better off > looking at valid HA or DR means for SQL Server such as Clustering, > Database Mirroring, (possibly replication), Log shipping etc. But your > goals and business needs will dictate the actual methods used. > > -- > Andrew J. Kelly SQL MVP > Solid Quality Mentors > > > "Andy" <kc2ine@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:u%23%23CdMEHIHA.1316@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >> Hi, >> If I'd like to ensure that in case sql server is down user still can >> access and write the the data what option do I have? Since writing is >> more important I thought about MSMQ tu put between the server and the >> application, but what about reading? Any other techiniques? >> In case of MSMQ, can you suggest any example how to use it with SQL >> server? >> thanks >> >
[quoted text, click to view]
> All these for 1) asynchronous access and 2) for security. Well that depends on what you are doing. Asynchronous access to a database is not very useful for most user applications. If you are only talking about SQL Server as a back end to an app that just needs to load data such as a logging process this may be fine. But if it is a user interface app and the user expects to see data back these techniques don't work well. Don't get me wrong things like Service Broker have a definite place and work great for what they were designed to do. But you can't front end a database server with these tools and expect them to work like a database server. I just got off a large project where we had to completely rewrite an app that made extensive use of web services because it couldn't scale as written and simply was the wrong tool for the job in this case. Management needs to define what their goals are first and then decide what the best tools for the job are, not the other way around. -- Andrew J. Kelly SQL MVP Solid Quality Mentors [quoted text, click to view] "Andy" <kc2ine@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%23y6juKOHIHA.4880@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >I have 2005 version. I was thinking about mirroring also, > but management wants to have some kind of user separation from SQL server > like web service (I don't want to do this) or messaging services like MSMQ > or SQL 2005 server Broker Agent. All these for 1) asynchronous access and > 2) for security. > So I'm a little confused what to use. What would you guys suggested? > thanks > > > "Andrew J. Kelly" <sqlmvpnooospam@shadhawk.com> wrote in message > news:O9IdyLJHIHA.6044@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> What happens then when the server that is running msmq goes down? Why >> would you think that would be more reliable than SQL Server? MSMQ can't >> even begin to duplicate the functionality of SQL Server and should never >> be thought of as a backup to or replacement for it. You are better off >> looking at valid HA or DR means for SQL Server such as Clustering, >> Database Mirroring, (possibly replication), Log shipping etc. But your >> goals and business needs will dictate the actual methods used. >> >> -- >> Andrew J. Kelly SQL MVP >> Solid Quality Mentors >> >> >> "Andy" <kc2ine@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> news:u%23%23CdMEHIHA.1316@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>> Hi, >>> If I'd like to ensure that in case sql server is down user still can >>> access and write the the data what option do I have? Since writing is >>> more important I thought about MSMQ tu put between the server and the >>> application, but what about reading? Any other techiniques? >>> In case of MSMQ, can you suggest any example how to use it with SQL >>> server? >>> thanks >>> >> > >
that's what I thought. I guess I'm going to recommend what you guys
suggested: Straight ADO db connection with SQL Srever mirroring. But what to hec to do with that connections string... is there any way to secure it enough whitin the application on user machine to convince them? Or maybe retrieve connection string with web service? [quoted text, click to view] "Andrew J. Kelly" <sqlmvpnooospam@shadhawk.com> wrote in message news:OifLlSQHIHA.4112@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> All these for 1) asynchronous access and 2) for security. > > Well that depends on what you are doing. Asynchronous access to a database > is not very useful for most user applications. If you are only talking > about SQL Server as a back end to an app that just needs to load data such > as a logging process this may be fine. But if it is a user interface app > and the user expects to see data back these techniques don't work well. > Don't get me wrong things like Service Broker have a definite place and > work great for what they were designed to do. But you can't front end a > database server with these tools and expect them to work like a database > server. I just got off a large project where we had to completely rewrite > an app that made extensive use of web services because it couldn't scale > as written and simply was the wrong tool for the job in this case. > Management needs to define what their goals are first and then decide what > the best tools for the job are, not the other way around. > > -- > Andrew J. Kelly SQL MVP > Solid Quality Mentors > > > "Andy" <kc2ine@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:%23y6juKOHIHA.4880@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>I have 2005 version. I was thinking about mirroring also, >> but management wants to have some kind of user separation from SQL server >> like web service (I don't want to do this) or messaging services like >> MSMQ or SQL 2005 server Broker Agent. All these for 1) asynchronous >> access and 2) for security. >> So I'm a little confused what to use. What would you guys suggested? >> thanks >> >> >> "Andrew J. Kelly" <sqlmvpnooospam@shadhawk.com> wrote in message >> news:O9IdyLJHIHA.6044@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>> What happens then when the server that is running msmq goes down? Why >>> would you think that would be more reliable than SQL Server? MSMQ can't >>> even begin to duplicate the functionality of SQL Server and should never >>> be thought of as a backup to or replacement for it. You are better off >>> looking at valid HA or DR means for SQL Server such as Clustering, >>> Database Mirroring, (possibly replication), Log shipping etc. But your >>> goals and business needs will dictate the actual methods used. >>> >>> -- >>> Andrew J. Kelly SQL MVP >>> Solid Quality Mentors >>> >>> >>> "Andy" <kc2ine@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>> news:u%23%23CdMEHIHA.1316@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>> Hi, >>>> If I'd like to ensure that in case sql server is down user still can >>>> access and write the the data what option do I have? Since writing is >>>> more important I thought about MSMQ tu put between the server and the >>>> application, but what about reading? Any other techiniques? >>>> In case of MSMQ, can you suggest any example how to use it with SQL >>>> server? >>>> thanks >>>> >>> >> >> >
Now we didn't really recommend anything since we don't know your actual
requirements. Why not use Windows authentication and you don't have to worry about showing any sensitive data. -- Andrew J. Kelly SQL MVP Solid Quality Mentors [quoted text, click to view] "Andy" <kc2ine@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uLB18nQHIHA.4196@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > that's what I thought. I guess I'm going to recommend what you guys > suggested: Straight ADO db connection with SQL Srever mirroring. But what > to hec to do with that connections string... is there any way to secure it > enough whitin the application on user machine to convince them? Or maybe > retrieve connection string with web service? > > "Andrew J. Kelly" <sqlmvpnooospam@shadhawk.com> wrote in message > news:OifLlSQHIHA.4112@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>> All these for 1) asynchronous access and 2) for security. >> >> Well that depends on what you are doing. Asynchronous access to a >> database is not very useful for most user applications. If you are only >> talking about SQL Server as a back end to an app that just needs to load >> data such as a logging process this may be fine. But if it is a user >> interface app and the user expects to see data back these techniques >> don't work well. Don't get me wrong things like Service Broker have a >> definite place and work great for what they were designed to do. But you >> can't front end a database server with these tools and expect them to >> work like a database server. I just got off a large project where we had >> to completely rewrite an app that made extensive use of web services >> because it couldn't scale as written and simply was the wrong tool for >> the job in this case. Management needs to define what their goals are >> first and then decide what the best tools for the job are, not the other >> way around. >> >> -- >> Andrew J. Kelly SQL MVP >> Solid Quality Mentors >> >> >> "Andy" <kc2ine@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> news:%23y6juKOHIHA.4880@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>I have 2005 version. I was thinking about mirroring also, >>> but management wants to have some kind of user separation from SQL >>> server like web service (I don't want to do this) or messaging services >>> like MSMQ or SQL 2005 server Broker Agent. All these for 1) >>> asynchronous access and 2) for security. >>> So I'm a little confused what to use. What would you guys suggested? >>> thanks >>> >>> >>> "Andrew J. Kelly" <sqlmvpnooospam@shadhawk.com> wrote in message >>> news:O9IdyLJHIHA.6044@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>> What happens then when the server that is running msmq goes down? Why >>>> would you think that would be more reliable than SQL Server? MSMQ >>>> can't even begin to duplicate the functionality of SQL Server and >>>> should never be thought of as a backup to or replacement for it. You >>>> are better off looking at valid HA or DR means for SQL Server such as >>>> Clustering, Database Mirroring, (possibly replication), Log shipping >>>> etc. But your goals and business needs will dictate the actual methods >>>> used. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Andrew J. Kelly SQL MVP >>>> Solid Quality Mentors >>>> >>>> >>>> "Andy" <kc2ine@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>> news:u%23%23CdMEHIHA.1316@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>> Hi, >>>>> If I'd like to ensure that in case sql server is down user still can >>>>> access and write the the data what option do I have? Since writing is >>>>> more important I thought about MSMQ tu put between the server and the >>>>> application, but what about reading? Any other techiniques? >>>>> In case of MSMQ, can you suggest any example how to use it with SQL >>>>> server? >>>>> thanks >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > >
Andy,
I suggest taking the secure road here. Yes, the connection string is a key to SQL Server content--it can unlock the door to the entire server and all of its data or to a single closet that contains just the data your application needs. I suggest the latter as a security strategy. The ConnectionString is not going to be visible to the end user unless you give them the source code. Yes, there are programs to decompile the program, but those are easily defeated with a couple of techniques. There are also ways to encrypt the ConnectionString supported in VS 2005. However, if the ConnectionString credentials only grant access to the few stored procedures or views that are used by the application, the exposure is minimal. Of course, this assumes that the application is written using this approach. I would be available to come talk to your management team about this and other related issues. We could even do this over a conference call. hth -- ____________________________________ William (Bill) Vaughn Author, Mentor, Consultant, Dad, Grandpa Microsoft MVP INETA Speaker www.betav.com www.betav.com/blog/billva Please reply only to the newsgroup so that others can benefit. This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. __________________________________ Visit www.hitchhikerguides.net to get more information on my latest book: Hitchhiker's Guide to Visual Studio and SQL Server (7th Edition) and Hitchhiker's Guide to SQL Server 2005 Compact Edition (EBook) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [quoted text, click to view] "Andy" <kc2ine@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uLB18nQHIHA.4196@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > that's what I thought. I guess I'm going to recommend what you guys > suggested: Straight ADO db connection with SQL Srever mirroring. But what > to hec to do with that connections string... is there any way to secure it > enough whitin the application on user machine to convince them? Or maybe > retrieve connection string with web service? > > "Andrew J. Kelly" <sqlmvpnooospam@shadhawk.com> wrote in message > news:OifLlSQHIHA.4112@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>> All these for 1) asynchronous access and 2) for security. >> >> Well that depends on what you are doing. Asynchronous access to a >> database is not very useful for most user applications. If you are only >> talking about SQL Server as a back end to an app that just needs to load >> data such as a logging process this may be fine. But if it is a user >> interface app and the user expects to see data back these techniques >> don't work well. Don't get me wrong things like Service Broker have a >> definite place and work great for what they were designed to do. But you >> can't front end a database server with these tools and expect them to >> work like a database server. I just got off a large project where we had >> to completely rewrite an app that made extensive use of web services >> because it couldn't scale as written and simply was the wrong tool for >> the job in this case. Management needs to define what their goals are >> first and then decide what the best tools for the job are, not the other >> way around. >> >> -- >> Andrew J. Kelly SQL MVP >> Solid Quality Mentors >> >> >> "Andy" <kc2ine@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> news:%23y6juKOHIHA.4880@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>I have 2005 version. I was thinking about mirroring also, >>> but management wants to have some kind of user separation from SQL >>> server like web service (I don't want to do this) or messaging services >>> like MSMQ or SQL 2005 server Broker Agent. All these for 1) >>> asynchronous access and 2) for security. >>> So I'm a little confused what to use. What would you guys suggested? >>> thanks >>> >>> >>> "Andrew J. Kelly" <sqlmvpnooospam@shadhawk.com> wrote in message >>> news:O9IdyLJHIHA.6044@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>> What happens then when the server that is running msmq goes down? Why >>>> would you think that would be more reliable than SQL Server? MSMQ >>>> can't even begin to duplicate the functionality of SQL Server and >>>> should never be thought of as a backup to or replacement for it. You >>>> are better off looking at valid HA or DR means for SQL Server such as >>>> Clustering, Database Mirroring, (possibly replication), Log shipping >>>> etc. But your goals and business needs will dictate the actual methods >>>> used. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Andrew J. Kelly SQL MVP >>>> Solid Quality Mentors >>>> >>>> >>>> "Andy" <kc2ine@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>> news:u%23%23CdMEHIHA.1316@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>> Hi, >>>>> If I'd like to ensure that in case sql server is down user still can >>>>> access and write the the data what option do I have? Since writing is >>>>> more important I thought about MSMQ tu put between the server and the >>>>> application, but what about reading? Any other techiniques? >>>>> In case of MSMQ, can you suggest any example how to use it with SQL >>>>> server? >>>>> thanks >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > >
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