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A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life


A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life lwti
6/4/2005 3:45:58 AM
dotnet performance:
You guys who hang around here are some of the sorriest and most incompetent
programmers( if you can even be called that) ever!!!

The only thing you know are reference books and theory that's been proven
wrong in the real world
You sit in front of your computer answering the SAME nickel and dime
questions day after day, week after week, year after year so you can't
possibly have any real experience in making an actual program and all you do
is give BAD advice to those seeking it here.

As far as I am concerned, Microsoft should end the MVP program as all that
it fosters is wanna be programmers who only give bad advice and never DO as
they ADVISE. You have essentially ZERO experience in coding .NET to begin
with.


DEAR MICROSOFT:
Kill off the MVP program. It only fosters people who strive for publicity in
trying to get a programming job as opposed to being actually able to do the
job. The MVP's only make programmers and the software industry look bad as
a whole as these people are supposed to be MOST VALUEABLE....when in they in
fact are the MOST WORTHLESS programmers ever, especially when they actually
do get a job they only sit around with theory, and all that nonsense of
architecture and best practices only to not even deliver the project to
begin with. Why not put all that theory and knowledge to the test and
actually see if it really works? Ha ha ha..like you can even do that?

All these people do is get silly certification and they STILL CANNOT GET A
JOB!!! Much less actually do the job.....Imagine that!!! It's no wonder
companies go off shore, as the quality of software sucks anyway, so why pay
extra in the US when it's going to be late, buggy and not what the customer
wanted anyway.


MESSAGE TO MVP's:
WAKE UP!!! START DOING SOME REAL WORK or someone will make sure the world
knows how incompetent you MVP's are and if you think you will have a hard
time now flashing your MVP and Certification letters around, wait till they
know the real truth about you and will think twice about even mentioning you
have a certification or MVP status......and no talking in front of user
groups don't count as most those groups are also like you, unemployed, can't
get the job done right.










Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life billmiami2 NO[at]SPAM netscape.net
6/4/2005 4:16:59 AM
Please stop these inflammatory posts. What do you hope to gain by
doing this? Whether or not MVPs have jobs is their business only.
Why do you care? If someone gives me good advice at no cost, I'm
certainly not going to question his employment status or use that to
disqualify his good advice.

We are all here to help one another. Most of us here (MVP or not) take
personal time to help others and we should all be thankful for that.
If you're not happy with the participants or the quality of the help,
then please leave these newsgroups and don't come back until you learn
to treat others with respect.

Bill E.
Hollywood, FL
Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life Kevin Spencer
6/4/2005 7:38:52 AM
Dude, you've got some serious issues. I suggest long-term therapy.

Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -
Phillip K. Dick

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

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Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life Joerg Jooss
6/4/2005 8:38:10 AM
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[...]

Feel free to post your CV.

Or is it String.Empty?
--
http://www.joergjooss.de
Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life Jeffrey Todd
6/4/2005 8:48:03 AM
I am personally grateful to a number of MVPs on this site - Ken Cox, Kevin
Spencer, Brock Allen, Curt Christenson, Karl Sequin, Steve C. Orr, Scott
Mitchell, and Bruce Barker. Without their advice, perspective, sample code,
and referenced articles or blogs I simply wouldn't have been able to succeed
as well or as quickly as I have in learning ASP.NET. When my customers or
programming peers see what I have created with ASP.NET and tell me how great
they think it is, I'm always very quick to mention that there is *no way* I
could have done it without the help of the MVPs in this NG.

Thank You MVPs!

-Jeff



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Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life lwti
6/4/2005 9:08:18 AM
This guy HAS a J.O.B. because M.V.P.'s are TOO STUPID to know that other
beginning programmers make money off of their nickel and dime questions/
answers. However, past the beginning part this is where, if he keeps taking
MVP's advice he will fail just like MVP's fail as they don't have JOB's
either



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Re: A challenge to all MVP's..TROLL ALERT !!! lwti
6/4/2005 9:12:52 AM
are MVP's trolls? they WANT, NEED ATTENTION to get the J.O.B. that they
can't KEEP or GET. THUS, THEY KEEP POSTING, POSTING, POSTING AWAY...

M.V.P = GIVE-ME-A-JOB-as-I-THINK-IKNOW-A-LOT-BUT-ACTUALLY-CAN'T DO IT-TROLL




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Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life Peter van der Goes
6/4/2005 9:21:19 AM

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Thank you for your insightful analysis and helpful suggestions. I'm sure
they will be read with great interest by Microsoft management and given all
the attention they deserve.

Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life lwti
6/4/2005 9:22:09 AM
Buy a book, it does the same thing and it will get you started.

After getting the basics down, don't bother to listen to them as these
people/authors have never gotten past the sample program and written a real
program where it actually counts in the real world.

Authors are little better than MVP's in that the actually have to write a
little sample code of which is what you need. But after that, then it's all
*you* as authors only write books to get noticed to get their next
consulting gig, they do not make money off their books if you didn't know
that.


Do NOT think that these MVP's and authors are some super programmers as they
are NOT to say the least. All they know is trivia, reference, how to answer
a worded question with a nice answer in public. When it actually comes down
to putting out a program and coding something in the real world, don't even
ask them, don't even listen to their best practices as they don't really
practice what they preach, nor do they even have time to practice what they
preach as they are posting all day long.


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Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life Nick Malik [Microsoft]
6/4/2005 9:28:31 AM
What a nice person!

All the MVPs that I am familiar with are paid very well for their expertise
in other positions. Many still work as individual contributors, while
others are development leads, architects, and consultants who share their
expertise directly with individual developers. That they share a small
portion of their significant experience with the rest of us, on this forum,
in blogs and in talks for user groups, most often without pay, is a form of
generosity of spirit that is both invaluable and fundamental to our
community.

I cannot praise the MVPs enough for their contribution to the Microsoft
programming community. I know that my sentiments are not alone within
Microsoft.

You have changed no minds today, troll.

--
--- Nick Malik [Microsoft]
MCSD, CFPS, Certified Scrummaster
http://blogs.msdn.com/nickmalik

Disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this forum are my own, and not
representative of my employer.
I do not answer questions on behalf of my employer. I'm just a
programmer helping programmers.
--

Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life lwti
6/4/2005 9:30:39 AM
They may have got you started, but they will also get you FIRED, just like
they were and are without a J.O.B.

If these MVP's are SOOOO GOOD, how can they be here day after day, week
after week, year after year, YET have nothing, zippo written for themselves
to show for it. Look at their websites, blogs at best! whew lots of coding
their. No it's posting, i.e. J.O.B. trolling cause they can't keep the
J.O.B. they had.

How come these people, WHO ARE SO WELL KNOWN can't get a J.O.B. but those
guys who created FIREFOX can get a J.O.B. just like that and are ACTUALLY
TOO BUSY to be on their BLOGS all day LONG as they have REAL WORK TO DO?

It's cause those FIREFOX guys actually created something that people use,
unlike MVP's who YEAR AFTER YEAR can't write a real program that people want
and actually use but spend day in and day out here posting away.







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Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life lwti
6/4/2005 9:37:37 AM
Dear Bill,

You want to know I am posting, here's one reason why.

If you want to KEEP your JOB, you should then STOP listening or even asking
these MVP's as they can't even KEEP their own JOB.with their so-called
advice. That's why. It's called practicing what your preaching and all
these MVP's are more preaching than practicing.

That's why you should ASK if these guys have J.O.B.'s as the advice your
getting is NOT EVEN GOOD ENOUGH for these MVP's to keep their own JOB's.

That's why you should ask so you actually know if the advice you get
ACTUALLY works in the REAL WORLD.


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Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life lwti
6/4/2005 9:41:45 AM
You are SO FULL IT!

These MVP's are some oft he worstl

If they actually are the so-called development leads, architects and
consultants HOW IN THE WORLD DO THEY HAVE SO MUCH TIME WHEN THEIR very OWN
projects are ALWAYS LATE!!

Microsoft projects are always late, heck all software projects are late, so
why in the world should these MVP have so much time then?





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Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life Roy
6/4/2005 9:46:11 AM
Thanks for all your help MVP's, it's appreciated!

-Roy
How good is the advice of MVP's...who can't even keep a J.O.B.? lwti
6/4/2005 9:54:01 AM
Just how good are these MVP's who are so well known in the community when
they can't even keep their JOB but spend all day here?

Last time I checked, most if not all software projects are late, including
those at Microsoft.

Do you see those programmers, lead developers, CIO, CTO, or for that matter
even non-technical people here day in and day out when they actually have to
get something out the door?
NO, REPEAT, NO YOU DON'T

And if these MVPs are not actually doing something or ever have done that
something how can these MVPs actually tell you what to do when they haven't
done it themselves? Is that the advice you want?






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Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life Earl
6/4/2005 10:08:17 AM
Frankly, I've often received better and more comprehensive advice from the
MVPs than I've gotten from Microsoft on most occasions. Creating a solution
takes a lot more experience and knowledge than just "coding in .Net". I'm
not sure what your beef is with the MVPs, but I think we would all be a lot
poorer without their insight and advice.



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Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life Nick Malik [Microsoft]
6/4/2005 10:08:22 AM
I am not fortunate enough to call myself an MVP because I am an employee of
Microsoft. None of the MVPs are employees of Microsoft.

However, I post about as many messages a day as an average MVP. I do this
in the morning, in about an hour. It is a good way to start the day,
sharpen my mind, and prepare my thoughts. I also learn a great deal from
reading the messages posted by others.

There are many intelligent people using Microsoft tools. I do not pretend
to be so smart that I can't learn by reading about their issues and
concerns.

I then commute to work, and spend 8+ hours per day as a software designer
and development lead. I enjoy my work and am fairly compensated for it.
The project I'm on is quite successful, and we have shipped code three times
in the past year, on time and on budget. Clearly, my contribution to the
forums has not hurt me, nor does it reflect negatively on my employability.

To smear the MVPs is to smear all of us. All who contribute. All who
listen. All who learn.

I will not engage you any longer in this discussion, troll. You obviously
have no problem attacking people that you have never met, who provide a
contribution that you do not value, for community that you do not belong to.

--
--- Nick Malik [Microsoft]
MCSD, CFPS, Certified Scrummaster
http://blogs.msdn.com/nickmalik

Disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this forum are my own, and not
representative of my employer.
I do not answer questions on behalf of my employer. I'm just a
programmer helping programmers.
--

Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life William (Bill) Vaughn
6/4/2005 10:27:00 AM
I have been working in the computer industry for over 30 years--I probably
got started before you were born. I have built countless applications for
companies large and small--some of which are probably still in use today. I
spent 14 of those years at Microsoft learning and documenting, teaching and
marketing, educating and mentoring those who would listen and want to learn.
In my "spare" time (time stolen from my family life) I wrote 11 books on
Microsoft technology. Some of these books have been translated to 6
languages and are read all over the world. I "retired" from Microsoft 5
years ago but I still have a job. I spend my time helping others where, when
and however I can. I spend at least an hour a day and more time when I'm
waiting for a compile or an install here on these lists and writing my blog.
I spend the bulk of my time working with the latest builds of the latest
development tools trying to make them better and trying to write articles,
conference sessions and books on how these new technologies work. Thanks to
my MVP status, I'm privledged to work very closely with the develoment teams
at Microsoft and other companies in an effort to make your development
process easier. I would do that even if I wasn't an MVP.

What is it that you do to contribute? I suspect that your mommy needs to
restrict the time you spend on the internet and make sure you're taking your
medication. Your childish rantings here are clearly an indication that you
need to get professional help. As it is, you're just making a fool of
yourself.

--
____________________________________
William (Bill) Vaughn
Author, Mentor, Consultant
Microsoft MVP
www.betav.com/blog/billva
www.betav.com
www.sqlreportingservices.net
Please reply only to the newsgroup so that others can benefit.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
__________________________________
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Re: A challenge to all MVP's..TROLL ALERT !!! james
6/4/2005 10:27:06 AM
Known Troll who keeps posting his nonsense all over under different names. In fact he is such a coward he
cannot even post under his own name. Truely sad and a waste of bandwidth.

james

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Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life David
6/4/2005 10:29:58 AM
I think you MVPs are the best, and I thank you for all of the help you've
give me (and everyone esle) over the years.
-David

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Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life eXtreme
6/4/2005 12:18:05 PM
It sounds like you want to validate that MVP's worth with your commentary.
Let others do what they will and either be part of it or do your own thing.

If you've been looked over as an MVP keep helping... it's not the title that
counts but how you feel about yourself in the morning. :-)

Regards,



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Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life Tony
6/4/2005 12:41:02 PM
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So where are your websites? What have you developed? What do you do with all
your time besides trolling on newsgroups?


Guys, stop feeding the troll...

Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life William Stacey [MVP]
6/4/2005 1:04:03 PM
Where are you getting the time to post such nonsense? Please ask a question
or move on to slashdot or something.

--
William Stacey [MVP]

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Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life Earl
6/4/2005 1:09:36 PM
No, they didn't get me started and they sure as heck aren't going to get me
fired, cuz I sell what I make. I don't read anyone's "blog", but at least
some of the MVPs I see in the forums are published -- off the top of my
head, Bill Vaughn and Hilary Cotter come to mind as having written some
pretty weighty tomes.

Anyway, congrats for trolling so adeptly :=)

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Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life clintonG
6/4/2005 2:30:13 PM
No he's right Kevin.

Too many MVPs are full of sh!t and little more than pimps playing on the
neophytes with the same lame and often misleading or false comments passing
for 'help' again and again and again. There are many motives why this would
occur. Some malevolent and others not. This is really evident in the
FrontPage newsgroups where I am astounded at the lies of ommission and
manipulation that occurs.

I can understand how human behavior can explain this phenomena and it often
frustrates me to no end but I'm simply tired of getting into it any more as
most of the time somebody will post to show the MVP is a pimp but the OP
never or rarely comes back to even thank anybody or remain involved in the
what can then evolve into a conflict. Even when the MVP is right on the
money the OP is nowhere to be seen. Still, the OP of this topic has a valid
point.

There are MVPs that I know for a fact are liars and cheats and others I
could not do without and bless the ground they walk on. This can be a real
paradox.

I've got something up my sleeve though so you better watch your step dude
:-)


<%= Clinton Gallagher
METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://metromilwaukee.com/
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/







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Re: A challenge to all MVP's..TROLL ALERT !!! james
6/4/2005 2:56:35 PM
Thank you, you proved my point for me. You , yourself have no J.O.B. and you are some kid who wishes he could write software
(and cannot because he spends all his time spamming newsgroups) and is still crying because , under another name, he asked a
question and no MVP answered it for him, because he was too stupid to figure out how to look it up for himself. So, instead of
rewording his question or taking the time to state that he did try to find an answer, he instead, goes off on a temper tantrum
like some spoiled 12 year old, and attacks others who have forgotten more than he will ever know about programming. Truely sad.
Try and seek some counseling...............you need it. (maybe your mom will read this and finally take your computer privilges
away)
james

Oh, and by the way.........WELCOME TO MY KILLFILE !!!!!!!!!!!!


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Re: How good is the advice of MVP's...who can't even keep a J.O.B.? james
6/4/2005 3:09:35 PM
Inline:
(means read my comments inbetween your inane rants)

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You still haven't proven even once that the MVP's (or anyone else here besides yourself) do not have a job.



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YOU CHECKED software projects??? So, you are waiting for what,,,,,,,,,,DOOM 4 1/2 ? And it's late
Truely, a stupid and uninformed statement on your part.


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You have no clue who posts here or what they do for a living. Provide some names and PROOF or STFU!
(your silly nonsense posts are not considered proof of anything other than your inability to make sense)


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Again, on what do you base your statements concerning MVP's and what they do or don't do??
Just your crybaby experiences don't count. Because it is obvious that you do not have enough intelligence
to understand what takes place in these newsgroups and the amount of help given here each and every day.
I hope you do finally get some good counseling as you are in serious denial of the truth of your situation.
You are clearly suffering from H.I.A. Syndrome. ( head in ass) Please seek help immediately and get back on your meds as soon as
possible before you wander too far from the instution and get ran over by a slow moving truck. And tell your keeper, it's time
for you to go back to your room (padded).
Have a nice day !!!
james



Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life Sahil Malik [MVP]
6/4/2005 3:18:48 PM
This one message beats 'em all !!! Thank you Roy !!!

BTW that Lwti dude - if he ever has the balls to come forth with his real
name, I'd love to have a sane argument with him - but folks who are to
chickensh*t to fire from behind a busy, are not worth my time.

- Sahil Malik [MVP]
http://codebetter.com/blogs/sahil.malik/


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Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life Alvin Bruney [MVP - ASP.NET]
6/4/2005 3:24:49 PM
wow, this guy has issues...

--
Regards,
Alvin Bruney - ASP.NET MVP

[Shameless Author Plug]
The Microsoft Office Web Components Black Book with .NET
Now available @ www.lulu.com/owc, Amazon.com etc
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Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life W.G. Ryan eMVP
6/4/2005 4:57:46 PM
Karl - is this you?
--
W.G. Ryan MVP (Windows Embedded)

TiBA Solutions
www.tibasolutions.com | www.devbuzz.com | www.knowdotnet.com
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Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life Sahil Malik [MVP]
6/4/2005 5:46:59 PM
LOL :-)

- Sahil Malik [MVP]
http://codebetter.com/blogs/sahil.malik/


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Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life Kevin Spencer
6/4/2005 6:25:55 PM
Well, Clinton, I think you could sum up what you wrote by saying that all
MVPs are human. I know I am!

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

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Re: How good is the advice of MVP's...who can't even keep a J.O.B.? Kevin Spencer
6/4/2005 6:31:07 PM
It isn't who the advice comes from, dude. It's whether it's good advice or
not. The truth exists without our participation. If we speak the truth, it
doesn't come FROM us, it comes THROUGH us. Nobody owns it. The law of
gravity existed long before Isaac Newton stumbled across it in his journey.
On the other hand, if you ignore it, you may be in for a "fall."

Knowledge is power. Ignorance is slavery. Take your pick.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

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Re: A challenge to all MVP's.......GET A J.O.B. for once in your life W.G. Ryan eMVP
6/4/2005 7:49:46 PM
LWTI - as a MVP - I want to make sure I help to address your concerns.

Can you please cite one example where a MVP has given you an incorrect
answer to a problem?
Can you cite just one example of theory or a reference book that has been
'proven' wrong in the real world?
Since most of the MVPs in the .NET area in particular have a tremendous
amount of real world experience, can you please indicate who it is you're
referring to that doesn't? Or what evidence you used to conclude that we
all lack real world experience?

For the Same Nickel and Dime questions - What would you propose that we do?
I typically create FAQ's on two of my web sites www.knowdotnet.com or
www.devbuzz.com as well as my blog www.msmvps.com/WilliamRyan to point
people to for the questions that seem to come up over and over again.
Should I ingore these repeat questions? Should I call people that ask them
mean names and blow them off? Why does me answering such questions hurt me,
them or anyone else? What do you propose in place of this?

Do you work on the 24 hour day? If so, I'm not sure I understand your
question. I work about 9 hours a day. In my last two jobs, my employers
have encouraged me to answer newsgroup and forum questions. Mainly, they
like to help the community at large. They don't mind giving up a little
time here and there b/c it helps to grow the community and it helps
establish each company as a place where their people have technical
expertise.
Even assuming I wasn't allowed to answer questions at work, at 9 hours a
day, and I sleep about 6, that leaves me 9 hours to do other things in life.
TYpically, I can answer most newsgroup questions in undre a minute, even if
I have to research, I can typically answer 20-30 questions a day and not
even slightly interrupt my life. Similarly, by answering questions, I get a
good feel for what others in the industry are actually doing (which provides
better insight than just reading tech maginzines which purport to know what
everyone is doing), learn what challenges people are facing (so we can
refine our services to meet those needs) and learn areas that I'm unfamiliar
with.

What would I personally need to do to be a 'real' programmer like you? I
have two books out and two more on the way, I've hosted 2 MSDN Webcasts,
spoken at multiple Code Camps, am frequently asked to speak at users group
meetings.... so I guess all those people that keep asking for me to present
must just be idiots that don't really get it. But if I want to be a 'real'
programmer like you, what should I do? Perhaps if I started anonymously
posting diatribes with a bunch of absurd claims in them, that would make me
"Real"?

As far as not having a job.. that scares me. I actually went to grad school
and have worked consistently since then. I typically claim over 6 figures
on my tax returns. So what would my tax return look like if I was 'real'?
and/or had a 'real' job?

For what it's worth, this post of your makes you appear pretty petty. It
looks to me like you're really jealous of others and don't have enough game
on your own to make yourself happy. I for one have a MVP award, which
apparently is more than you have. I say apparently b/c you may well have
tons more accomplishments than I do, but your post doesn't cite any of them
so it's impossible to tell. but typically, people as accomplished as you
get noteiriety of some sort. You have chosen, at least with this message,
to remain anonymous which, you have to realize, makes people wonder why.
Did a MVP make you look stupid at work? Did your wife see my picutre and
fall in love? Did a consulting company which employs MVPS look at your work
and conclude it was junk? What's your beef with MVPS? Please dude, provide
specifics


--
W.G. Ryan, MVP

www.tibasolutions.com | www.devbuzz.com | www.knowdotnet.com
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Quest