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dotnet performance : Rewrite ...
discussion not related to any specific details. I was just looking to see what reasons developers are looking to, to help decide whether they should rewrite their app in .NET. What are the trends being observed of Microsoft when it comes to .Net? How much longer will COM objects live on? How stable is the Framework? If the goal is to maintain a software package for the next 10 years, would that make a differnce on the decision? What if a rewrite would take approximately 2 years, would that affect when you decided to do a rewrite? Are their any security benefits? I am looking for opinions, but also links to facts that can help support your case. I'm hoping this can become a good discussion. Thanks
No just thought a good cross section would lead to some insightful
discussion. All the groups areDotNet, and cover differnet topics covering what I am looking for. (Security, Performance, ...) I am really just trying to gain a perspective on the pros of rewriting a VB 6 app in Dot Net. [quoted text, click to view] "Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <notmyfirstname@planet.nl> wrote in message news:%23HvUNn%23cGHA.4072@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > Stan, > > Crossposting to so many newsgroups looks for most regulars in newsgroups, > nothing more than the start of a Troll Thread. > > Sorry if I misinterpret > > Cor > > "Stan Canepa" <scanepa@docksidesoftware.com> schreef in bericht > news:e0dSfJ%23cGHA.380@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > > This post is mostly for discussion. Why rewrite in .NET? Just a general > > discussion not related to any specific details. I was just looking to see > > what reasons developers are looking to, to help decide whether they should > > rewrite their app in .NET. > > > > What are the trends being observed of Microsoft when it comes to .Net? > > > > How much longer will COM objects live on? > > > > How stable is the Framework? > > > > If the goal is to maintain a software package for the next 10 years, would > > that make a differnce on the decision? > > > > What if a rewrite would take approximately 2 years, would that affect when > > you decided to do a rewrite? > > > > Are their any security benefits? > > > > I am looking for opinions, but also links to facts that can help support > > your case. I'm hoping this can become a good discussion. > > > > Thanks > > > > > >
I would probably begin a rewrite in a very controlled way, hopefully the app
is well modularized where you could take bits at a time? i.e. treat it as 40 seperate applications with a shared base? Cheers, Greg Young MVP - C# [quoted text, click to view] "Stan Canepa" <scanepa@docksidesoftware.com> wrote in message news:e0dSfJ%23cGHA.380@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > This post is mostly for discussion. Why rewrite in .NET? Just a general > discussion not related to any specific details. I was just looking to see > what reasons developers are looking to, to help decide whether they should > rewrite their app in .NET. > > What are the trends being observed of Microsoft when it comes to .Net? > > How much longer will COM objects live on? > > How stable is the Framework? > > If the goal is to maintain a software package for the next 10 years, would > that make a differnce on the decision? > > What if a rewrite would take approximately 2 years, would that affect when > you decided to do a rewrite? > > Are their any security benefits? > > I am looking for opinions, but also links to facts that can help support > your case. I'm hoping this can become a good discussion. > > Thanks > >
Stan,
Crossposting to so many newsgroups looks for most regulars in newsgroups, nothing more than the start of a Troll Thread. Sorry if I misinterpret Cor "Stan Canepa" <scanepa@docksidesoftware.com> schreef in bericht news:e0dSfJ%23cGHA.380@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... [quoted text, click to view] > This post is mostly for discussion. Why rewrite in .NET? Just a general > discussion not related to any specific details. I was just looking to see > what reasons developers are looking to, to help decide whether they should > rewrite their app in .NET. > > What are the trends being observed of Microsoft when it comes to .Net? > > How much longer will COM objects live on? > > How stable is the Framework? > > If the goal is to maintain a software package for the next 10 years, would > that make a differnce on the decision? > > What if a rewrite would take approximately 2 years, would that affect when > you decided to do a rewrite? > > Are their any security benefits? > > I am looking for opinions, but also links to facts that can help support > your case. I'm hoping this can become a good discussion. > > Thanks > >
Stan,
If it is a let say for the developper dead application, which needs never maintenance than let say changing some values which could have been external but just need to be changed one time a year, than there is probably few need for changing if you are sure that it is that dead that even the hardware and OS will not change the comming ten years. In my idea is the last an utopia thought by people with no expirience in that. Otherwise it is wise in my opinion at least to investigate what it does mean. However, a newsgroup can never know all your ins and outs and can in my opinion therefore give you no answers on that. Big banks (and companies like that) are seldom changing there software which is not direct seen by the client, just because not changing it is moslty the safest. They came in trouble before the year 2000 when they had to make changes. It was hard to get the hands to do that in that time. Just my idea Cor "Stan Canepa" <scanepa@docksidesoftware.com> schreef in bericht news:e1u1Gt%23cGHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... [quoted text, click to view] > No just thought a good cross section would lead to some insightful > discussion. All the groups areDotNet, and cover differnet topics covering > what I am looking for. (Security, Performance, ...) I am really just > trying > to gain a perspective on the pros of rewriting a VB 6 app in Dot Net. > > > "Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <notmyfirstname@planet.nl> wrote in message > news:%23HvUNn%23cGHA.4072@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> Stan, >> >> Crossposting to so many newsgroups looks for most regulars in newsgroups, >> nothing more than the start of a Troll Thread. >> >> Sorry if I misinterpret >> >> Cor >> >> "Stan Canepa" <scanepa@docksidesoftware.com> schreef in bericht >> news:e0dSfJ%23cGHA.380@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> > This post is mostly for discussion. Why rewrite in .NET? Just a general >> > discussion not related to any specific details. I was just looking to > see >> > what reasons developers are looking to, to help decide whether they > should >> > rewrite their app in .NET. >> > >> > What are the trends being observed of Microsoft when it comes to .Net? >> > >> > How much longer will COM objects live on? >> > >> > How stable is the Framework? >> > >> > If the goal is to maintain a software package for the next 10 years, > would >> > that make a differnce on the decision? >> > >> > What if a rewrite would take approximately 2 years, would that affect > when >> > you decided to do a rewrite? >> > >> > Are their any security benefits? >> > >> > I am looking for opinions, but also links to facts that can help >> > support >> > your case. I'm hoping this can become a good discussion. >> > >> > Thanks >> > >> > >> >> > >
Hello Stan,
I'll answer some questions inline. [quoted text, click to view] > This post is mostly for discussion. Why rewrite in .NET? Just a general > discussion not related to any specific details. I was just looking to see > what reasons developers are looking to, to help decide whether they should > rewrite their app in .NET. > > What are the trends being observed of Microsoft when it comes to .Net? Generally Line-Of-Business apps were being rewritten in .Net before larger system apps. New app development has moved substantially to .Net, although there are some folks still developing new apps in older technologies. Now that SOA apps are gaining in popularity, a proliferation of web-service-based apps/services are emerging, largely in .Net because it is so much easier to develop and debug them there. [quoted text, click to view] > > How much longer will COM objects live on? I'm not in the product groups, so I cannot say. I don't believe that COM is going away any time soon. However, with the flexibility of WCF, I'm not sure that COM is the first choice I'd jump to for new components that I wish to share and manage. [quoted text, click to view] > > How stable is the Framework? Extraordinarily stable. Probably the most stable chunk of software that Microsoft has ever produced. [quoted text, click to view] > > If the goal is to maintain a software package for the next 10 years, would > that make a differnce on the decision? Nope. In 10 years, you will change technology twice. When you change depends on you, not on the technology available at the time. [quoted text, click to view] > > What if a rewrite would take approximately 2 years, would that affect when > you decided to do a rewrite? Nope. See above. In Microsoft IT, we tend to replatform apps once every four to six years. [quoted text, click to view] > > Are their any security benefits? Yes, but it depends on what you are doing. Normally, when folks rewrite, they are also adding features and often changing the architecture of the app to meet newly understood requirements. The new architecture will have a greater impact on security (in a good or bad way) than the language or technology. [quoted text, click to view] > > I am looking for opinions, but also links to facts that can help support > your case. I'm hoping this can become a good discussion. > > Thanks > > To the core question: why rewrite in .Net: Because you want to add features to your app, and you want to update the architecture to meet new needs, and you want to maintain it for a while, and your developers know, or want to know, new technologies. All pretty typical reasons. I don't normally advocate rewriting for the sake of rewriting. On the other hand, if you have an app that is eight years old, it probably needs updating, because the requirements were gathered nine years ago, and no matter how good your analysts were, unless they were good at predicting the future, your app is missing some things that you need to add. If your app is two years old, I'd be curious about why it isn't in .net already. The platform has been out for many years now. If you don't think the needs are going to change for a while, leave it. The older technologies aren't broken. They are just technologies. All technologies change. That shouldn't be a reason, by itself, to change your app. Change your app when the requirements change. Use fairly new technologies each time. Simple as that. -- --- Nick Malik [Microsoft] Enterprise Architect MCSD, CFPS, Certified Scrummaster http://blogs.msdn.com/nickmalik Disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this forum are my own, and not representative of my employer. I do not answer questions on behalf of my employer. I'm just a programmer helping programmers. --
I have just started programming in VB.net and learning it as I go.
I have been programming ( to pay my bills ) since '98 and some things I learned in school are outdated already, and some have changed so much I am outdated. Some languages I have learned at some places such as ( 4GL ) I cannot use anywhere else, and others were so unique its not beneficial to continue in them. From my perspective, I think it would be beneficial to start updating/learning .net. A programmers life span is about 5 years ( apparently ) before they need to upgrade themselves. Your programmers would be learning an up to date programming language while maintaining your old one. Basically you would be funding the "schooling" for them to update their skills. If you choose not to update for 10 years, how long will your programmers choose to write code in vb6? At least that way - you will see any hiccups that will arise in the future, and perhaps even code some things in VB6 differently to make a transition later on more easily. If you set aside 3 or 4 hours a week per programmer ( an afternoon ) where they can start to program in .net, / try to take a module and bring it up to the new version - This would at least give you an idea of their complaints or likes about the new version. Do it now, while it is still financially feasible to take a couple hours off each programmers "income time". Im programming in my current languages, but I have realized... to learn something new that "might" help me out later on, is more beneficial then to learn nothing new at all. Why not ask your programmers what they would want to do? - a happy worker is a productive worker. My 2 cents. Miro -And if anyone else reads this on the vb.net newsgroups - Thank you for you help as I walk up the learning curve. [quoted text, click to view] "Stan Canepa" <scanepa@docksidesoftware.com> wrote in message news:e0dSfJ%23cGHA.380@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > This post is mostly for discussion. Why rewrite in .NET? Just a general > discussion not related to any specific details. I was just looking to see > what reasons developers are looking to, to help decide whether they should > rewrite their app in .NET. > > What are the trends being observed of Microsoft when it comes to .Net? > > How much longer will COM objects live on? > > How stable is the Framework? > > If the goal is to maintain a software package for the next 10 years, would > that make a differnce on the decision? > > What if a rewrite would take approximately 2 years, would that affect when > you decided to do a rewrite? > > Are their any security benefits? > > I am looking for opinions, but also links to facts that can help support > your case. I'm hoping this can become a good discussion. > > Thanks > >
[quoted text, click to view] "Nick Malik [Microsoft]" <nickmalik@hotmail.nospam.com> wrote in message news:hqadnWJk3Ouvm__ZnZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@comcast.com... > > Hello Stan, > > I'll answer some questions inline. > > > To the core question: why rewrite in .Net: Because you want to add features > to your app, and you want to update the architecture to meet new needs, and > you want to maintain it for a while, and your developers know, or want to > know, new technologies. All pretty typical reasons. I don't normally > advocate rewriting for the sake of rewriting. On the other hand, if you > have an app that is eight years old, it probably needs updating, because the > requirements were gathered nine years ago, and no matter how good your > analysts were, unless they were good at predicting the future, your app is > missing some things that you need to add. > > If your app is two years old, I'd be curious about why it isn't in .net > already. The platform has been out for many years now. > Simple - VB 7.x (.net 1.x) was a lousy upgrade for VB 6 programmers. VB 2005 is a much better, but not perfect, upgrade path for VB 6 programmers. [quoted text, click to view] > If you don't think the needs are going to change for a while, leave it. The > older technologies aren't broken. They are just technologies. All > technologies change. That shouldn't be a reason, by itself, to change your > app. Change your app when the requirements change. Use fairly new > technologies each time. Simple as that. > Agreed. Don't rewrite an application just because there is a new technology. Any rewrite should be for major revisions - minor revisions can be done in the original technology/language. Mike Ober.
Thanks for the input.
We are considering doing a rewrite of an app that is 7 years old, and you are right it is just missing functionality. And the new functionality added into the app, was forced into the structures to make it work. The app also has several modules all basically its own application, but they all work together. If we do the rewrite it would be to unify everything, so that they all can share the same business rules and interface. And to create a better database design to help make maintenance and support a lot easier. My biggest concern is that we are a small shop and the rewrite will take about 2 years. I don't want to wait too long and be behind the eightball, but I also don't want to move forward with a technology that is still developing itself. I know no one can answer these questions for me, but it's still good to get feedback from people dealing with the same issues. Thanks [quoted text, click to view] "Nick Malik [Microsoft]" <nickmalik@hotmail.nospam.com> wrote in message news:hqadnWJk3Ouvm__ZnZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@comcast.com... > Hello Stan, > > I'll answer some questions inline. > > > This post is mostly for discussion. Why rewrite in .NET? Just a general > > discussion not related to any specific details. I was just looking to see > > what reasons developers are looking to, to help decide whether they should > > rewrite their app in .NET. > > > > What are the trends being observed of Microsoft when it comes to .Net? > > Generally Line-Of-Business apps were being rewritten in .Net before larger > system apps. New app development has moved substantially to .Net, although > there are some folks still developing new apps in older technologies. Now > that SOA apps are gaining in popularity, a proliferation of > web-service-based apps/services are emerging, largely in .Net because it is > so much easier to develop and debug them there. > > > > > How much longer will COM objects live on? > > I'm not in the product groups, so I cannot say. I don't believe that COM is > going away any time soon. However, with the flexibility of WCF, I'm not > sure that COM is the first choice I'd jump to for new components that I wish > to share and manage. > > > > > How stable is the Framework? > > Extraordinarily stable. Probably the most stable chunk of software that > Microsoft has ever produced. > > > > > If the goal is to maintain a software package for the next 10 years, would > > that make a differnce on the decision? > > Nope. In 10 years, you will change technology twice. When you change > depends on you, not on the technology available at the time. > > > > > What if a rewrite would take approximately 2 years, would that affect when > > you decided to do a rewrite? > > Nope. See above. In Microsoft IT, we tend to replatform apps once every > four to six years. > > > > > Are their any security benefits? > > Yes, but it depends on what you are doing. Normally, when folks rewrite, > they are also adding features and often changing the architecture of the app > to meet newly understood requirements. The new architecture will have a > greater impact on security (in a good or bad way) than the language or > technology. > > > > > I am looking for opinions, but also links to facts that can help support > > your case. I'm hoping this can become a good discussion. > > > > Thanks > > > > > > To the core question: why rewrite in .Net: Because you want to add features > to your app, and you want to update the architecture to meet new needs, and > you want to maintain it for a while, and your developers know, or want to > know, new technologies. All pretty typical reasons. I don't normally > advocate rewriting for the sake of rewriting. On the other hand, if you > have an app that is eight years old, it probably needs updating, because the > requirements were gathered nine years ago, and no matter how good your > analysts were, unless they were good at predicting the future, your app is > missing some things that you need to add. > > If your app is two years old, I'd be curious about why it isn't in .net > already. The platform has been out for many years now. > > If you don't think the needs are going to change for a while, leave it. The > older technologies aren't broken. They are just technologies. All > technologies change. That shouldn't be a reason, by itself, to change your > app. Change your app when the requirements change. Use fairly new > technologies each time. Simple as that. > > -- > --- Nick Malik [Microsoft] > Enterprise Architect > MCSD, CFPS, Certified Scrummaster > http://blogs.msdn.com/nickmalik > > Disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this forum are my own, and not > representative of my employer. > I do not answer questions on behalf of my employer. I'm just a > programmer helping programmers. > -- > >
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