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Are there any RAD apps to speed up one-many db application development that are worth considering? Thanks Regards
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On Feb 7, 7:49 pm, "John" <J...@nospam.infovis.co.uk> wrote: > Hi > > Are there any RAD apps to speed up one-many db application development that > are worth considering? > > Thanks > > Regards Do not take this personally, but have you spent much time programming in VB? It seems you keep asking for ways to speed up development, but if you are experienced with the language / IDE you would most likely be able to roll out applications very quickly? Thanks,
VB.Net is a RAD ,,, i believe that this is the only true advantage of VB
"John" <John@nospam.infovis.co.uk> schreef in bericht news:%231b80xeaIHA.3400@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... [quoted text, click to view] > Hi > > Are there any RAD apps to speed up one-many db application development > that are worth considering? > > Thanks > > Regards > >
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> Seth, I wrote one complete db app in vs2003 (access backend) and sold it too > so its a commercial app but the time it took to develop and then to support > it afterwards (to change only one field in a table I needed to change tons > of data layer code) that it brought tears to my eyes. Interesting, I've never noticed any really time consuming data access tier changes, but I might be immune as I spend most of my day adding such and such a field to such and such a table. But non-the-less, I feel your pain when it comes to maintaining the code against db changes. [quoted text, click to view] > Sometimes I wonder why MS doesn't do an MS Access version with sql server > backend (instead of Jet) I'm pretty sure, though not positive, that you can hook Access into Sql Server. As a matter of fact, I think it has an upgrade wizard built in. [quoted text, click to view] > as Access does the routine db access stuff quite > nicely without having to write tons of code. Well, I'll differ in opinion here. I hate to the bottom of my sole (yes I mean the bottom of my shoe) the way Access handles db interaction. It's a bad architecture in my opinion, but to each his own. [quoted text, click to view] > If it were possible to allow > developer write perfectly working db apps in 1997 (Access 97) then it should > be possible in 2008 too. Not an unreasonable expectation. Not unreasonable at all. [quoted text, click to view] > PS: Not taken personally. Good to hear, many times comments come across as personal attacks, and I didn't want mine to be taken incorrectly. Thanks,
Seth, I wrote one complete db app in vs2003 (access backend) and sold it too
so its a commercial app but the time it took to develop and then to support it afterwards (to change only one field in a table I needed to change tons of data layer code) that it brought tears to my eyes. So I am looking a way to speed up what is essentially a repetitive task, specially now that I am hoping to move to sql server as backend. Sometimes I wonder why MS doesn't do an MS Access version with sql server backend (instead of Jet) as Access does the routine db access stuff quite nicely without having to write tons of code. If it were possible to allow developer write perfectly working db apps in 1997 (Access 97) then it should be possible in 2008 too. Not an unreasonable expectation. Thanks Regards PS: Not taken personally. [quoted text, click to view] "rowe_newsgroups" <rowe_email@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:a430e9f0-02a4-4550-a059-7ccfa82e42de@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com... > On Feb 7, 7:49 pm, "John" <J...@nospam.infovis.co.uk> wrote: >> Hi >> >> Are there any RAD apps to speed up one-many db application development >> that >> are worth considering? >> >> Thanks >> >> Regards > > Do not take this personally, but have you spent much time programming > in VB? It seems you keep asking for ways to speed up development, but > if you are experienced with the language / IDE you would most likely > be able to roll out applications very quickly? > > Thanks, > > Seth Rowe [MVP]
Hi John,
I post this here also, as I don't know if you still follow the other thread. What you want to do (edit a table as easily as in MSAccess) cannot be done out of the box in VS with the standard MS controls without having to write tons of code. But you could use the tools from www.DevExpress.com, they have (under others) a grid that can do what you want. This grid has two modes, 1) a standard mode, where all records need to be loaded into memory. This is good enough when you have only a few records, less than 10.000 or so, and 2) what is called a server mode, where only the displayed records are loaded on demand, as the user scrolls the records in the grid, or sorts columns, or filters records, etc. When the grid is used in server mode, the user can edit, update, insert or delete the records directly in the grid, through nice inplace editors. This server mode technology makes use of XPO, the ORM (Object Relational Mapping) tool of DevExpress. There are many ORMs out there, Microsoft is also (finally) working on theirs (Entity Framework with Link to SQL), but what DevExpress offers is well integrated in their control suite. This means, you do not have to bother for the SQLs, they are dynamically generated by XPO, and you do not need to code anything to handle the edition of your records. I guess, this is much the same as what you were used to in MSAccess. I recommend you check it out in the donwloadable DXperience v2007 vol 3 for Visual Studio 2005, 2008. - Download it at http://www.devexpress.com/Downloads/NET/DXperience/files/DXperience-7.3.7.exe and install it. - Start the Demo Center - Click XtraGrid Suite - Click XtraGrid Main Demo - On the left in the NavBar, in the Server Side section, click Grid Server Mode. This demo works with MS SQL Server only, but note that with the same code (your exe, if you prefer), you could connect to all main DB systems there is (this is another very unique feature of DevExpress).
About your thread "Refilling dataset without changing context", you will also need to implement some locking mechanism, to protect the data integrity when several users edit the same record during the same period.
Hi Marc
I am using Infragistics controls including the UltraGrid. I presume that one does that too. I think I am reasonably happy with the Infragistics controls coupled with the standard code generated by vs 2008; binding source etc. One problem with this approach however is that it will probably get slower as the number of records grow large as, as far as I can tell vs generated code loads all records in a go. Second problem is that in a multi user scenario one has to do some tedious coding to ensure dataset is updated frequently from any new records that other users may have added/updated on the network. All this seems to me tedious but at the same time quiet routine for any db app. This brings me to my original quest to try to find a RAD app that can do this tedious but repetitive and fairly standard coding task. Thanks Regards [quoted text, click to view] "Marc Greiner" <a@b.c> wrote in message news:op.t57mgwhpsj2bhp@mms... > Hi John, > > I post this here also, as I don't know if you still follow the other > thread. > > What you want to do (edit a table as easily as in MSAccess) cannot be done > out of the box in VS with the standard MS controls without having to write > tons of code. > > But you could use the tools from www.DevExpress.com, they have (under > others) a grid that can do what you want. > > This grid has two modes, 1) a standard mode, where all records need to be > loaded into memory. This is good enough when you have only a few records, > less than 10.000 or so, and 2) what is called a server mode, where only > the displayed records are loaded on demand, as the user scrolls the > records in the grid, or sorts columns, or filters records, etc. > > When the grid is used in server mode, the user can edit, update, insert or > delete the records directly in the grid, through nice inplace editors. > This server mode technology makes use of XPO, the ORM (Object Relational > Mapping) tool of DevExpress. There are many ORMs out there, Microsoft is > also (finally) working on theirs (Entity Framework with Link to SQL), but > what DevExpress offers is well integrated in their control suite. This > means, you do not have to bother for the SQLs, they are dynamically > generated by XPO, and you do not need to code anything to handle the > edition of your records. I guess, this is much the same as what you were > used to in MSAccess. > > I recommend you check it out in the donwloadable DXperience v2007 vol 3 > for Visual Studio 2005, 2008. > > - Download it at > http://www.devexpress.com/Downloads/NET/DXperience/files/DXperience-7.3.7.exe > and install it. > - Start the Demo Center > - Click XtraGrid Suite > - Click XtraGrid Main Demo > - On the left in the NavBar, in the Server Side section, click Grid Server > Mode. This demo works with MS SQL Server only, but note that with the same > code (your exe, if you prefer), you could connect to all main DB systems > there is (this is another very unique feature of DevExpress). > > Regards,
"John" <John@nospam.infovis.co.uk> wrote in news:#cxMKomaIHA.5348
@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl: [quoted text, click to view] > I think I am reasonably happy with the Infragistics controls > coupled with the standard code generated by vs 2008; InFRIGistics. I hate those controls. Overly bloated for nothing. --
From what I understood from your other threads and this one, if you want to find the same easiness as in MSAccess, the only alternative you have today is the DevExpress XtraGrid in conjunction with XPO, used in server mode for big tables, and normal mode for small tables.
As I said, all what you need to do with the DevExpress Grid is bind your collection to the grid, set a few of its properties, and you are set. No SQL (no select, no insert, no update, no delete), and no code, no generated code, no dataset, you use real object collections. With this, the user can edit directly in the grid with very nice editors (here I mean nicer ones). The infragistic grid cannot do it, it does not know anything about Object Relational Maping and knows even less from Server mode.
What keeps you from using Access 2000 , 2003 ,,,,,, 2007 ??
If you are so happy with it and it suits your needs , and your customers are happy with it why would you bother developing a "reall" application wich indeed requires some coding . [quoted text, click to view] > Sometimes I wonder why MS doesn't do an MS Access version with sql server > backend (instead of Jet) as Access does the routine db access stuff quite > nicely without having to write tons of code. If it were possible to allow > developer write perfectly working db apps in 1997 (Access 97) then it > should be possible in 2008 too. Not an unreasonable expectation. what keeps you from setting up a connection to SQL server from your Access database ? just my thoughts Michel "John" <John@nospam.infovis.co.uk> schreef in bericht news:uO$4SylaIHA.1376@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... [quoted text, click to view] > Seth, I wrote one complete db app in vs2003 (access backend) and sold it > too so its a commercial app but the time it took to develop and then to > support it afterwards (to change only one field in a table I needed to > change tons of data layer code) that it brought tears to my eyes. So I am > looking a way to speed up what is essentially a repetitive task, specially > now that I am hoping to move to sql server as backend. > > Sometimes I wonder why MS doesn't do an MS Access version with sql server > backend (instead of Jet) as Access does the routine db access stuff quite > nicely without having to write tons of code. If it were possible to allow > developer write perfectly working db apps in 1997 (Access 97) then it > should be possible in 2008 too. Not an unreasonable expectation. > > Thanks > > Regards > > > PS: Not taken personally. > > "rowe_newsgroups" <rowe_email@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:a430e9f0-02a4-4550-a059-7ccfa82e42de@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com... >> On Feb 7, 7:49 pm, "John" <J...@nospam.infovis.co.uk> wrote: >>> Hi >>> >>> Are there any RAD apps to speed up one-many db application development >>> that >>> are worth considering? >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Regards >> >> Do not take this personally, but have you spent much time programming >> in VB? It seems you keep asking for ways to speed up development, but >> if you are experienced with the language / IDE you would most likely >> be able to roll out applications very quickly? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Seth Rowe [MVP] > >
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>> PS: Not taken personally. > > Good to hear, many times comments come across as personal attacks, and > I didn't want mine to be taken incorrectly. People seem especially feeling this way , if you do not share there opinion or views Michel "rowe_newsgroups" <rowe_email@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht news:d6d88ab0-9bf5-410a-9f00-e22393acc66d@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com... [quoted text, click to view] >> Seth, I wrote one complete db app in vs2003 (access backend) and sold it >> too >> so its a commercial app but the time it took to develop and then to >> support >> it afterwards (to change only one field in a table I needed to change >> tons >> of data layer code) that it brought tears to my eyes. > > Interesting, I've never noticed any really time consuming data access > tier changes, but I might be immune as I spend most of my day adding > such and such a field to such and such a table. But non-the-less, I > feel your pain when it comes to maintaining the code against db > changes. > >> Sometimes I wonder why MS doesn't do an MS Access version with sql server >> backend (instead of Jet) > > I'm pretty sure, though not positive, that you can hook Access into > Sql Server. As a matter of fact, I think it has an upgrade wizard > built in. > >> as Access does the routine db access stuff quite >> nicely without having to write tons of code. > > Well, I'll differ in opinion here. I hate to the bottom of my sole > (yes I mean the bottom of my shoe) the way Access handles db > interaction. It's a bad architecture in my opinion, but to each his > own. > >> If it were possible to allow >> developer write perfectly working db apps in 1997 (Access 97) then it >> should >> be possible in 2008 too. Not an unreasonable expectation. > > Not unreasonable at all. > >> PS: Not taken personally. > > Good to hear, many times comments come across as personal attacks, and > I didn't want mine to be taken incorrectly. > > Thanks, > > Seth Rowe [MVP]
John,
If you want the "simple" solutions you can make with Access, this is can "almost" be as easy as in Access with VB. However, when people start with VB or a more to the code based program language like that, then most people wants suddenly all other things they never would think about in Access. Just because that is impossible. You will say not true, this the standard behaviour of mankind. Cor
We use and recommend Diamond Binding for doing application development in
..Net against a database. (http://dunnchurchill.com) It basically takes over between the database and your business objects - so you just have to use the object model - Customer.Find(3), Customer.FindByProperty(surname, fred) etc. Free options include code generators - but their output tends to be pretty limiting. Cheers [quoted text, click to view] "John" wrote:
> Seth, I wrote one complete db app in vs2003 (access backend) and sold it too > so its a commercial app but the time it took to develop and then to support > it afterwards (to change only one field in a table I needed to change tons > of data layer code) that it brought tears to my eyes. So I am looking a way > to speed up what is essentially a repetitive task, specially now that I am > hoping to move to sql server as backend. > > Sometimes I wonder why MS doesn't do an MS Access version with sql server > backend (instead of Jet) as Access does the routine db access stuff quite > nicely without having to write tons of code. If it were possible to allow > developer write perfectly working db apps in 1997 (Access 97) then it should > be possible in 2008 too. Not an unreasonable expectation. > > Thanks > > Regards > > > PS: Not taken personally. > > "rowe_newsgroups" <rowe_email@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:a430e9f0-02a4-4550-a059-7ccfa82e42de@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com... > > On Feb 7, 7:49 pm, "John" <J...@nospam.infovis.co.uk> wrote: > >> Hi > >> > >> Are there any RAD apps to speed up one-many db application development > >> that > >> are worth considering? > >> > >> Thanks > >> > >> Regards > > > > Do not take this personally, but have you spent much time programming > > in VB? It seems you keep asking for ways to speed up development, but > > if you are experienced with the language / IDE you would most likely > > be able to roll out applications very quickly? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Seth Rowe [MVP] > >
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