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Jon Skeet [C# MVP] wrote: > > I believe that WPF is much more efficient overall - but tends to be > used to do snazzier things, which obviously have their own costs. > Jon, do you see future support as an issue at all? Or do you expect both to be equally well supported long term?
[quoted text, click to view] "Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <skeet@pobox.com> wrote in message news:MPG.222bea0346c4ed63992@msnews.microsoft.com... > Steve Gerrard <mynamehere@comcast.net> wrote: >> > I believe that WPF is much more efficient overall - but tends to be >> > used to do snazzier things, which obviously have their own costs. >> >> Jon, do you see future support as an issue at all? Or do you expect both >> to be >> equally well supported long term? > > I suspect both will be supported for the foreseeable future. WPF has > been given so much emphasis that MS would lose face by dropping it now, > and there's so much code using Windows Forms that it would be madness > to stop supporting that. > > -- > Jon Skeet - <skeet@pobox.com> > http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet > World class .NET training in the UK: http://iterativetraining.co.uk Look how much code used VB6 and they dropped that. Why wouldn't they drop Windows Froms too. Galen
[quoted text, click to view] "Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <skeet@pobox.com> wrote in message news:MPG.222bffcebd66c07f995@msnews.microsoft.com... > Galen Somerville <galen@community.nospam> wrote: > > <snip> > >> Look how much code used VB6 and they dropped that. Why wouldn't they drop >> Windows Froms too. > > True enough - but VB6 was sounding "old" by then. WinForms may sound > old compared with WPF, but it's still on the shiny .NET platform > they're pushing. > > I don't *think* MS would drop support for it any time soon... > > -- > Jon Skeet - <skeet@pobox.com> > http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet > World class .NET training in the UK: http://iterativetraining.co.uk I agree, especially since there's so many controls not yet available in WPF, and it's not as stable as Windows Forms. To me, it also seems like it's more for graphics type apps than for business store-data-and-report-it kind of apps. Just my two cents' worth. RobinS.
Hi
If I have a choice of WPF or Windows Form versions of a control which one should I purchase? Thanks Regards
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John <John@nospam.infovis.co.uk> wrote: > If I have a choice of WPF or Windows Form versions of a control which one > should I purchase? Without wishing to be obvious: whichever framework you plan to write your application in. That will depend on a number of factors: 1) What operating systems do your clients have? WPF only works on reasonably recent versions of Windows (e.g. not Win98) 2) What version of Visual Studio do you plan to use to develop your application? Visual Studio 2008 has WPF support, but you'd have to use various extensions and plug-ins for VS2005, which aren't terribly satisfactory. 3) Do your clients have .NET 3.0 installed? Are you happy to install it on their boxes? WPF is (in my view) a much more pleasant UI library to work with than Windows Forms - but it does require more modern software to support it. -- Jon Skeet - <skeet@pobox.com> http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
Thanks. I use vs 2008 and all clients have win 2000 but mostly winxp.
Does wpf reduce application execution speed noticeably compared to windows form? Thanks Regards [quoted text, click to view] "Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <skeet@pobox.com> wrote in message news:MPG.222bd0525157f67a98b@msnews.microsoft.com... > John <John@nospam.infovis.co.uk> wrote: >> If I have a choice of WPF or Windows Form versions of a control which one >> should I purchase? > > Without wishing to be obvious: whichever framework you plan to write > your application in. > > That will depend on a number of factors: > > 1) What operating systems do your clients have? WPF only works on > reasonably recent versions of Windows (e.g. not Win98) > > 2) What version of Visual Studio do you plan to use to develop your > application? Visual Studio 2008 has WPF support, but you'd have to use > various extensions and plug-ins for VS2005, which aren't terribly > satisfactory. > > 3) Do your clients have .NET 3.0 installed? Are you happy to install it > on their boxes? > > WPF is (in my view) a much more pleasant UI library to work with than > Windows Forms - but it does require more modern software to support it. > > -- > Jon Skeet - <skeet@pobox.com> > http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet > World class .NET training in the UK: http://iterativetraining.co.uk
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John <John@nospam.infovis.co.uk> wrote: > Thanks. I use vs 2008 and all clients have win 2000 but mostly winxp. > > Does wpf reduce application execution speed noticeably compared to windows > form? It depends what you do with it - and what graphics card you've got. WPF is accelerated by graphics cards (I believe) whereas Windows Forms doesn't take as much advantage of them. I believe that WPF is much more efficient overall - but tends to be used to do snazzier things, which obviously have their own costs. Personally, I'd try the kinds of things you want your app to do, prototyping in both frameworks, and make a decision when you've got that data. -- Jon Skeet - <skeet@pobox.com> http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
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Steve Gerrard <mynamehere@comcast.net> wrote: > > I believe that WPF is much more efficient overall - but tends to be > > used to do snazzier things, which obviously have their own costs. > > Jon, do you see future support as an issue at all? Or do you expect both to be > equally well supported long term? I suspect both will be supported for the foreseeable future. WPF has been given so much emphasis that MS would lose face by dropping it now, and there's so much code using Windows Forms that it would be madness to stop supporting that. -- Jon Skeet - <skeet@pobox.com> http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
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Galen Somerville <galen@community.nospam> wrote: <snip> [quoted text, click to view] > Look how much code used VB6 and they dropped that. Why wouldn't they drop > Windows Froms too. True enough - but VB6 was sounding "old" by then. WinForms may sound old compared with WPF, but it's still on the shiny .NET platform they're pushing. I don't *think* MS would drop support for it any time soon... -- Jon Skeet - <skeet@pobox.com> http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet
"WinForms" is just a wrapper for Win32 forms... to drop Win32 forms you'd
have to rewrite every windows app out there that has a UI... so don't epect MS to drop them anytime soon... [quoted text, click to view] "Galen Somerville" <galen@community.nospam> wrote in message news:OAJI8OzdIHA.5348@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > > "Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <skeet@pobox.com> wrote in message > news:MPG.222bea0346c4ed63992@msnews.microsoft.com... >> Steve Gerrard <mynamehere@comcast.net> wrote: >>> > I believe that WPF is much more efficient overall - but tends to be >>> > used to do snazzier things, which obviously have their own costs. >>> >>> Jon, do you see future support as an issue at all? Or do you expect both >>> to be >>> equally well supported long term? >> >> I suspect both will be supported for the foreseeable future. WPF has >> been given so much emphasis that MS would lose face by dropping it now, >> and there's so much code using Windows Forms that it would be madness >> to stop supporting that. >> >> -- >> Jon Skeet - <skeet@pobox.com> >> http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet >> World class .NET training in the UK: http://iterativetraining.co.uk > > Look how much code used VB6 and they dropped that. Why wouldn't they drop > Windows Froms too. > > Galen > >
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On Feb 25, 2:33=A0am, "RobinS" <rob...@imnottelling.com> wrote: > "Jon Skeet [C# MVP]" <sk...@pobox.com> wrote in messagenews:MPG.222bffcebd= 66c07f995@msnews.microsoft.com... > > > > > > > Galen Somerville <ga...@community.nospam> wrote: > > > <snip> > > >> Look how much code used VB6 and they dropped that. Why wouldn't they dr= op > >> Windows Froms too. > > > True enough - but VB6 was sounding "old" by then. WinForms may sound > > old compared with WPF, but it's still on the shiny .NET platform > > they're pushing. > > > I don't *think* MS would drop support for it any time soon... > > > -- > > Jon Skeet - <sk...@pobox.com> > >http://www.pobox.com/~skeet=A0 Blog:http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet > > World class .NET training in the UK:http://iterativetraining.co.uk > > I agree, especially since there's so many controls not yet available in WP= F, > and it's not as stable as Windows Forms. To me, it also seems like it's mo= re > for graphics type apps than for business store-data-and-report-it kind of > apps. > > Just my two cents' worth. > RobinS.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I suspect WPF may require a graphic card as heavy as Vista's aero with
I have to wonder if VS2008/WPF is really ready for prime time. I had some
time this weekend and finally installed the DVD with VS2008 I had gotten. Open a WPF application and place a button on the form, code the click event to show a message box, hit the F5 key and get an error that has nothing to do with my code! Error Option Strict On disallows implicit conversions from 'System.Windows.Application' to 'WpfApplication1.Application'. It was easy to fix, but it sure makes me wonder if it is worth my time to even start to use WPF yet! -- Terry [quoted text, click to view] "John" wrote:
> Hi > > If I have a choice of WPF or Windows Form versions of a control which one > should I purchase? > > Thanks > > Regards > >
Well I have spent some more time with it and am even less impressed. Just
fooling around with a regular windows form app. and am having all sorts of wierd problems. Half the time when I hit the F5 key, I get 2 (back to back) error messages telling me that the <path>.form1.vb can not be accessed at this time. I put controls on the form and hit the F5 key, and the controls arn't there in run mode. I hit save and get out and back in and my changes wern't saved! This has happened several times! It may have something to do with resizing the form, not sure yet. But like I said - I am not impressed! I am using the version that came with my MSDN subscription that I received a couple of months ago - wonder if there is an update somewhere. -- Terry [quoted text, click to view] "BlackWasp" wrote:
> I have started down the WPF path as a learning exercise. It does seem to be > quite fun and like the way that the vector-based output resolves the problem > of pixel-based rendering. (Jumping from my 1280x1024 19" LCD to my > 1920x1200 15" laptop shows the problem to good effect!) > > I haven't noticed any stability problems as yet but there are some controls > missing as you point out. I will be trying out the grid and other controls > from Infragistics pretty soon I imagine. Anybody got any experience of > these - good or bad? > > -- > > BlackWasp > www.blackwasp.co.uk > > > "Terry" <TerryL@nospam.nospam> wrote in message > news:06688C0C-3C38-4B96-86DF-0C0924911235@microsoft.com... > >I have to wonder if VS2008/WPF is really ready for prime time. I had some > > time this weekend and finally installed the DVD with VS2008 I had gotten. > > Open a WPF application and place a button on the form, code the click > > event > > to show a message box, hit the F5 key and get an error that has nothing to > > do > > with my code! > > Error Option Strict On disallows implicit conversions from > > 'System.Windows.Application' to 'WpfApplication1.Application'. > > > > It was easy to fix, but it sure makes me wonder if it is worth my time to > > even start to use WPF yet! > > -- > > Terry > > > > > > "John" wrote: > > > >> Hi > >> > >> If I have a choice of WPF or Windows Form versions of a control which one > >> should I purchase? > >> > >> Thanks > >> > >> Regards > >> > >> > >> >
[quoted text, click to view] >I have to wonder if VS2008/WPF is really ready for prime time. It isn't. Plain and simple. WPF is to WinForms as Vista is to Windows; some nice shiny new promises with very questionable implementation. I started to rewrite a small stats application for one of my customers a few weeks ago. I got as far as wondering why I couldn't get root-lines to show up on a tree-view control, and after much Googling realised that I'd need 100+ lines of XAML template-altering non-intuitive chevron and curly bracket laced code written by some hobbyist on the internet for something that still wouldn't quite work the same way as the original root lines in good old fashioned WinForms. This is how MS define WPF as being "finished". Yeah, right... If MS really want people to start seriously developing with this new platform, they need to finish it first. Some areas feel like giant leaps forward, others feel like big steps backwards and some controls just haven't been implemented at all. Couple that to a severe lack of decent examples and sample code, and the web being littered with samples that date back to November CTPs using code that doesn't work anymore, and it didn't take me long to realise I won't be using WPF for anything any time soon. [quoted text, click to view] > Error Option Strict On disallows implicit conversions from > 'System.Windows.Application' to 'WpfApplication1.Application'. Yep, I got that every time as well. Turns out VS2008 isn't strictly finished for the new platform either. There were many basic GUI things I found that couldn't be done in VS and required me to use Expression Blend, many simple layout things I couldn't do in Expression that I had to do in VS2008 (I can't tell you how much fun it is to keep switching from one gigantically memory hungry app to another every 5 minutes, telling it to reload your project) and some relatively simple things that couldn't be done in either one and required me to edit XAML directly. And don't even get me started on the new printing services. Such a collossal wreck that even Tom Cruise himself wouldn't be able to help.
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"Smokey Grindel" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:e3eVyL2dIHA.4396@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > "WinForms" is just a wrapper for Win32 forms... to drop Win32 forms you'd > have to rewrite every windows app out there that has a UI... so don't > epect MS to drop them anytime soon... No. There's nothing stopping MS from dropping WinForms support from .NET 4.0; it has nothing to do with continuing support for Win32 forms at all. WPF is also based at its lowest level on Win32 forms and is essentially just another wrapper around it with some DirectX thrown in for fun. The WinForms base classes could effectively be culled and replaced by WPF in ..NET 4.0 and it wouldn't have the slightest impact on the existence of Win32 forms in Vista or Windows 7. The only thing stopping MS from doing it is how much it would piss off all the programmers, which they're working to make obselete in the next release of VS ("Oslo") anyway...
I have started down the WPF path as a learning exercise. It does seem to be
quite fun and like the way that the vector-based output resolves the problem of pixel-based rendering. (Jumping from my 1280x1024 19" LCD to my 1920x1200 15" laptop shows the problem to good effect!) I haven't noticed any stability problems as yet but there are some controls missing as you point out. I will be trying out the grid and other controls from Infragistics pretty soon I imagine. Anybody got any experience of these - good or bad? -- BlackWasp www.blackwasp.co.uk [quoted text, click to view] "Terry" <TerryL@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
news:06688C0C-3C38-4B96-86DF-0C0924911235@microsoft.com... >I have to wonder if VS2008/WPF is really ready for prime time. I had some > time this weekend and finally installed the DVD with VS2008 I had gotten. > Open a WPF application and place a button on the form, code the click > event > to show a message box, hit the F5 key and get an error that has nothing to > do > with my code! > Error Option Strict On disallows implicit conversions from > 'System.Windows.Application' to 'WpfApplication1.Application'. > > It was easy to fix, but it sure makes me wonder if it is worth my time to > even start to use WPF yet! > -- > Terry > > > "John" wrote: > >> Hi >> >> If I have a choice of WPF or Windows Form versions of a control which one >> should I purchase? >> >> Thanks >> >> Regards >> >> >>
Weird. I am using the Team Development version downloaded from MSDN.
I am only using C#, not VB. Can't see why this would be a problem though. -- BlackWasp www.blackwasp.co.uk [quoted text, click to view] "Terry" <TerryL@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
news:571C7F77-6A11-4705-904C-D8855CDD4EEF@microsoft.com... > Well I have spent some more time with it and am even less impressed. Just > fooling around with a regular windows form app. and am having all sorts of > wierd problems. Half the time when I hit the F5 key, I get 2 (back to > back) > error messages telling me that the <path>.form1.vb can not be accessed at > this time. I put controls on the form and hit the F5 key, and the > controls > arn't there in run mode. I hit save and get out and back in and my > changes > wern't saved! This has happened several times! It may have something to > do > with resizing the form, not sure yet. But like I said - I am not > impressed! > I am using the version that came with my MSDN subscription that I received > a > couple of months ago - wonder if there is an update somewhere. > -- > Terry > > > "BlackWasp" wrote: > >> I have started down the WPF path as a learning exercise. It does seem to >> be >> quite fun and like the way that the vector-based output resolves the >> problem >> of pixel-based rendering. (Jumping from my 1280x1024 19" LCD to my >> 1920x1200 15" laptop shows the problem to good effect!) >> >> I haven't noticed any stability problems as yet but there are some >> controls >> missing as you point out. I will be trying out the grid and other >> controls >> from Infragistics pretty soon I imagine. Anybody got any experience of >> these - good or bad? >> >> -- >> >> BlackWasp >> www.blackwasp.co.uk >> >> >> "Terry" <TerryL@nospam.nospam> wrote in message >> news:06688C0C-3C38-4B96-86DF-0C0924911235@microsoft.com... >> >I have to wonder if VS2008/WPF is really ready for prime time. I had >> >some >> > time this weekend and finally installed the DVD with VS2008 I had >> > gotten. >> > Open a WPF application and place a button on the form, code the click >> > event >> > to show a message box, hit the F5 key and get an error that has nothing >> > to >> > do >> > with my code! >> > Error Option Strict On disallows implicit conversions from >> > 'System.Windows.Application' to 'WpfApplication1.Application'. >> > >> > It was easy to fix, but it sure makes me wonder if it is worth my time >> > to >> > even start to use WPF yet! >> > -- >> > Terry >> > >> > >> > "John" wrote: >> > >> >> Hi >> >> >> >> If I have a choice of WPF or Windows Form versions of a control which >> >> one >> >> should I purchase? >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
Alex,
"Alex Clark" schrieb: [quoted text, click to view] > I started to rewrite a small stats application for one of my customers a > few weeks ago. I got as far as wondering why I couldn't get root-lines to > show up on a tree-view control, and after much Googling realised that I'd > need 100+ lines of XAML template-altering non-intuitive chevron and curly > bracket laced code written by some hobbyist on the internet for something > that still wouldn't quite work the same way as the original root lines in > good old fashioned WinForms. This is how MS define WPF as being > "finished". Yeah, right... Let's hope that Microsoft does not only plan to add new controls to WPF (ribbon etc.) but complete the existing WPF controls: ..NET 3.5 Client Product Roadmap - ScottGu's Blog <URL:http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2008/02/19/net-3-5-client-product-roadmap.aspx> -> "WPF Control Improvements" -> "VS 2008 WPF Designer Improvements" Currently I would not use WPF because the existing controls are so incomplete and filling the gaps with custom styles will may require a partial rewrite when the styles are added to the controls. -- M S Herfried K. Wagner M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/> V B <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/dotnet/faqs/>
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