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On Feb 13, 2:48 pm, "Jelle de Jong" <je...@nospam.hoest.nl> wrote: > Hi, > > I want to start a new project, I want to build my own database server and > start very simple. I want to create a file-based database server, with > XML-files. Does anyone know a good site or book to get some more information > about this kind of project (like 'How to build your own database server')? > > Or can someone help me start...? > > I want to build it in C# (.NET) and save files in XML. > > I want to use XML-files to use as my database-definition files, like: > > <data> > <database name="TestDB"> > <table name="TestTable"> > <field type="PrimaryKey" name="ID" /> > <field type="String" name="Name" /> > <field type="DateTime" name="DateOfBirth" /> > <field type="Bool" name="Male" default="True" /> > </table> > </database> > </data> > > I also want to use/create a SQL like query language to use for querying this > database. > > Hopefully someone can help me. > > Thanks in advance. > > Greetings, > > Jelle Don't get put off. Check out SimpleDB from Amazon. Or CouchDB. You can serialize objects into them. They are more of an "document database" than a "relational database". cbmeeks
Jelle,
This is a ^tremendous^ undertaking that you are considering. I don't know if you are doing it because you have to (in which case, I would say find some other data source) or if you are just doing it for the hell of it, but either way, it's not easy. The major areas you have to deal with are the storage of the data, and the querying of the data. While these are the two main concerns, there are going to be many things that you have to consider: - How will storing data structure/information in XML affect the performance of the database? - How will you affect concurrent access to the database? - How will you handle indexes (you have a primary key, which implies an index in most/all DB systems) - How will you connect to the database and execute commands/return information - What will the query language look like? These are just ^some^ of the issues you have to deal with when writing a DB server. There are many, many more, but the questions posed above are probably good places to start. -- - Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] - mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com [quoted text, click to view] "Jelle de Jong" <jelle@nospam.hoest.nl> wrote in message news:47b34992$0$19307$9a622dc7@news.kpnplanet.nl... > Hi, > > I want to start a new project, I want to build my own database server and > start very simple. I want to create a file-based database server, with > XML-files. Does anyone know a good site or book to get some more > information about this kind of project (like 'How to build your own > database server')? > > Or can someone help me start...? > > I want to build it in C# (.NET) and save files in XML. > > I want to use XML-files to use as my database-definition files, like: > > <data> > <database name="TestDB"> > <table name="TestTable"> > <field type="PrimaryKey" name="ID" /> > <field type="String" name="Name" /> > <field type="DateTime" name="DateOfBirth" /> > <field type="Bool" name="Male" default="True" /> > </table> > </database> > </data> > > I also want to use/create a SQL like query language to use for querying > this database. > > Hopefully someone can help me. > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Greetings, > > Jelle
Jelle,
If you are going to use it for web-based applications, then I really have to say that you are going to have to do plenty of dirty little things to make sure it performs well, and you are going to have to make sure that transaction consistency is bullet-proof. With the number of people that will hammer the database at the same time in a web-based app, those things are certainly going to be put to the test. Additionally, if the database is file-based, you simply are not going to get the performance you can get with keeping the data in memory and paging out to disk when necessary. The reason for this is that if all of your operations are done on the file each time they occur, your disk access becomes a HUGE bottleneck for you. -- - Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] - mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com [quoted text, click to view] "Jelle de Jong" <jelle@nospam.hoest.nl> wrote in message news:47b34bd0$0$25500$9a622dc7@news.kpnplanet.nl... > By the way, I want to use it for webapplications and windowsapplications. > > > > "Jelle de Jong" <jelle@nospam.hoest.nl> wrote in message > news:47b34992$0$19307$9a622dc7@news.kpnplanet.nl... >> Hi, >> >> I want to start a new project, I want to build my own database server and >> start very simple. I want to create a file-based database server, with >> XML-files. Does anyone know a good site or book to get some more >> information about this kind of project (like 'How to build your own >> database server')? >> >> Or can someone help me start...? >> >> I want to build it in C# (.NET) and save files in XML. >> >> I want to use XML-files to use as my database-definition files, like: >> >> <data> >> <database name="TestDB"> >> <table name="TestTable"> >> <field type="PrimaryKey" name="ID" /> >> <field type="String" name="Name" /> >> <field type="DateTime" name="DateOfBirth" /> >> <field type="Bool" name="Male" default="True" /> >> </table> >> </database> >> </data> >> >> I also want to use/create a SQL like query language to use for querying >> this database. >> >> Hopefully someone can help me. >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> >> >> Greetings, >> >> Jelle >> >
Jelle,
Why is it that you are adamant about using the filesystem? I ask because you had the desire to have this used in web applications, and a file-based database is just going to be crushed under the load in a web-app with any real load. -- - Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] - mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com [quoted text, click to view] "Jelle de Jong" <jelle@nospam.hoest.nl> wrote in message news:47b350d3$0$25493$9a622dc7@news.kpnplanet.nl... > Nicholas, > > So maybe it's better to use XmlSerialization to save objects to the > filesystem and Deserialize them to use them as objects again. So no > query-language or in-memory data or whatsoever. Or use MySQL, SQL Server > or Oracle instead ;-) > > Or do you have other nice ideas about how people should store their data > into a data-structure or a filesystem? > > > Gr., > Jelle > > > > "Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]" <mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com> wrote > in message news:%23UoBExnbIHA.1960@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >> Jelle, >> >> If you are going to use it for web-based applications, then I really >> have to say that you are going to have to do plenty of dirty little >> things to make sure it performs well, and you are going to have to make >> sure that transaction consistency is bullet-proof. With the number of >> people that will hammer the database at the same time in a web-based app, >> those things are certainly going to be put to the test. >> >> Additionally, if the database is file-based, you simply are not going >> to get the performance you can get with keeping the data in memory and >> paging out to disk when necessary. The reason for this is that if all of >> your operations are done on the file each time they occur, your disk >> access becomes a HUGE bottleneck for you. >> >> >> -- >> - Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] >> - mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com >> >> "Jelle de Jong" <jelle@nospam.hoest.nl> wrote in message >> news:47b34bd0$0$25500$9a622dc7@news.kpnplanet.nl... >>> By the way, I want to use it for webapplications and >>> windowsapplications. >>> >>> >>> >>> "Jelle de Jong" <jelle@nospam.hoest.nl> wrote in message >>> news:47b34992$0$19307$9a622dc7@news.kpnplanet.nl... >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I want to start a new project, I want to build my own database server >>>> and start very simple. I want to create a file-based database server, >>>> with XML-files. Does anyone know a good site or book to get some more >>>> information about this kind of project (like 'How to build your own >>>> database server')? >>>> >>>> Or can someone help me start...? >>>> >>>> I want to build it in C# (.NET) and save files in XML. >>>> >>>> I want to use XML-files to use as my database-definition files, like: >>>> >>>> <data> >>>> <database name="TestDB"> >>>> <table name="TestTable"> >>>> <field type="PrimaryKey" name="ID" /> >>>> <field type="String" name="Name" /> >>>> <field type="DateTime" name="DateOfBirth" /> >>>> <field type="Bool" name="Male" default="True" /> >>>> </table> >>>> </database> >>>> </data> >>>> >>>> I also want to use/create a SQL like query language to use for querying >>>> this database. >>>> >>>> Hopefully someone can help me. >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Greetings, >>>> >>>> Jelle >>>> >>> >> >> >> >
Jelle,
There is nothing wrong with saving data to the file system, but keep in mind that ^always^ accessing the data from the files in the file system is going to be a huge bottleneck for you. -- - Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] - mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com [quoted text, click to view] "Jelle de Jong" <jelle@nospam.hoest.nl> wrote in message news:47b35a0a$0$25500$9a622dc7@news.kpnplanet.nl... > Nicholas, > >> >> Why is it that you are adamant about using the filesystem? I ask >> because you had the desire to have this used in web applications, and a >> file-based database is just going to be crushed under the load in a >> web-app with any real load. >> > > I want to use the filesystem because it's easy en cheap. When I'm creating > simple websites for maybe 50 - 100 visitors a day, I want to have an easy > way of saving data. That's why. So it's pure for saving some content for > webpages, or feedback from visitors, or mailaddresses form some kind of > newsletter/mailinglist. > > > Jelle
Jelle,
Yes, it will be in memory, but you want to ^keep^ it in memory for as long as possible. If you save it back to the filesystem after an update, for example, and then reload it again the next time you need it, that's going to cause a bottleneck. If you already have it lying around in memory, you wouldn't have to load it from disc. -- - Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] - mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com [quoted text, click to view] "Jelle de Jong" <jelle@nospam.hoest.nl> wrote in message news:47b35e03$0$25500$9a622dc7@news.kpnplanet.nl... > Nicholas, > >> >> There is nothing wrong with saving data to the file system, but keep >> in mind that ^always^ accessing the data from the files in the file >> system is going to be a huge bottleneck for you. >> > > But when I'm using Serialization, my application should perform better, > then the object will be in-memory while it's being used, isn't it? And > in-memory is the fastest way, I presume? > > > > Jelle
Hi,
I want to start a new project, I want to build my own database server and start very simple. I want to create a file-based database server, with XML-files. Does anyone know a good site or book to get some more information about this kind of project (like 'How to build your own database server')? Or can someone help me start...? I want to build it in C# (.NET) and save files in XML. I want to use XML-files to use as my database-definition files, like: <data> <database name="TestDB"> <table name="TestTable"> <field type="PrimaryKey" name="ID" /> <field type="String" name="Name" /> <field type="DateTime" name="DateOfBirth" /> <field type="Bool" name="Male" default="True" /> </table> </database> </data> I also want to use/create a SQL like query language to use for querying this database. Hopefully someone can help me. Thanks in advance. Greetings, Jelle
By the way, I want to use it for webapplications and windowsapplications.
[quoted text, click to view] "Jelle de Jong" <jelle@nospam.hoest.nl> wrote in message
news:47b34992$0$19307$9a622dc7@news.kpnplanet.nl... > Hi, > > I want to start a new project, I want to build my own database server and > start very simple. I want to create a file-based database server, with > XML-files. Does anyone know a good site or book to get some more > information about this kind of project (like 'How to build your own > database server')? > > Or can someone help me start...? > > I want to build it in C# (.NET) and save files in XML. > > I want to use XML-files to use as my database-definition files, like: > > <data> > <database name="TestDB"> > <table name="TestTable"> > <field type="PrimaryKey" name="ID" /> > <field type="String" name="Name" /> > <field type="DateTime" name="DateOfBirth" /> > <field type="Bool" name="Male" default="True" /> > </table> > </database> > </data> > > I also want to use/create a SQL like query language to use for querying > this database. > > Hopefully someone can help me. > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Greetings, > > Jelle >
Nicholas,
I know it's not an easy project, but I just want to create something for my own use. And this is a real challenge! ;-) I want to start very simple. My idea was to work with some form of Serialization. But I don't know what the performance will be when I want to write back to the filesystem. It's just for fun, and maybe someone also wants to create such a thing or did it before? Gr., Jelle "Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]" <mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com> wrote in message news:%23yQ19onbIHA.5164@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... [quoted text, click to view] > Jelle,
> > This is a ^tremendous^ undertaking that you are considering. I don't > know if you are doing it because you have to (in which case, I would say > find some other data source) or if you are just doing it for the hell of > it, but either way, it's not easy. > > The major areas you have to deal with are the storage of the data, and > the querying of the data. While these are the two main concerns, there > are going to be many things that you have to consider: > > - How will storing data structure/information in XML affect the > performance of the database? > - How will you affect concurrent access to the database? > - How will you handle indexes (you have a primary key, which implies an > index in most/all DB systems) > - How will you connect to the database and execute commands/return > information > - What will the query language look like? > > These are just ^some^ of the issues you have to deal with when writing > a DB server. There are many, many more, but the questions posed above are > probably good places to start. > > > -- > - Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] > - mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com > > "Jelle de Jong" <jelle@nospam.hoest.nl> wrote in message > news:47b34992$0$19307$9a622dc7@news.kpnplanet.nl... >> Hi, >> >> I want to start a new project, I want to build my own database server and >> start very simple. I want to create a file-based database server, with >> XML-files. Does anyone know a good site or book to get some more >> information about this kind of project (like 'How to build your own >> database server')? >> >> Or can someone help me start...? >> >> I want to build it in C# (.NET) and save files in XML. >> >> I want to use XML-files to use as my database-definition files, like: >> >> <data> >> <database name="TestDB"> >> <table name="TestTable"> >> <field type="PrimaryKey" name="ID" /> >> <field type="String" name="Name" /> >> <field type="DateTime" name="DateOfBirth" /> >> <field type="Bool" name="Male" default="True" /> >> </table> >> </database> >> </data> >> >> I also want to use/create a SQL like query language to use for querying >> this database. >> >> Hopefully someone can help me. >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> >> >> Greetings, >> >> Jelle > > >
Nicholas,
So maybe it's better to use XmlSerialization to save objects to the filesystem and Deserialize them to use them as objects again. So no query-language or in-memory data or whatsoever. Or use MySQL, SQL Server or Oracle instead ;-) Or do you have other nice ideas about how people should store their data into a data-structure or a filesystem? Gr., Jelle "Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]" <mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com> wrote in message news:%23UoBExnbIHA.1960@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... [quoted text, click to view] > Jelle,
> > If you are going to use it for web-based applications, then I really > have to say that you are going to have to do plenty of dirty little things > to make sure it performs well, and you are going to have to make sure that > transaction consistency is bullet-proof. With the number of people that > will hammer the database at the same time in a web-based app, those things > are certainly going to be put to the test. > > Additionally, if the database is file-based, you simply are not going > to get the performance you can get with keeping the data in memory and > paging out to disk when necessary. The reason for this is that if all of > your operations are done on the file each time they occur, your disk > access becomes a HUGE bottleneck for you. > > > -- > - Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] > - mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com > > "Jelle de Jong" <jelle@nospam.hoest.nl> wrote in message > news:47b34bd0$0$25500$9a622dc7@news.kpnplanet.nl... >> By the way, I want to use it for webapplications and windowsapplications. >> >> >> >> "Jelle de Jong" <jelle@nospam.hoest.nl> wrote in message >> news:47b34992$0$19307$9a622dc7@news.kpnplanet.nl... >>> Hi, >>> >>> I want to start a new project, I want to build my own database server >>> and start very simple. I want to create a file-based database server, >>> with XML-files. Does anyone know a good site or book to get some more >>> information about this kind of project (like 'How to build your own >>> database server')? >>> >>> Or can someone help me start...? >>> >>> I want to build it in C# (.NET) and save files in XML. >>> >>> I want to use XML-files to use as my database-definition files, like: >>> >>> <data> >>> <database name="TestDB"> >>> <table name="TestTable"> >>> <field type="PrimaryKey" name="ID" /> >>> <field type="String" name="Name" /> >>> <field type="DateTime" name="DateOfBirth" /> >>> <field type="Bool" name="Male" default="True" /> >>> </table> >>> </database> >>> </data> >>> >>> I also want to use/create a SQL like query language to use for querying >>> this database. >>> >>> Hopefully someone can help me. >>> >>> Thanks in advance. >>> >>> >>> >>> Greetings, >>> >>> Jelle >>> >> > > >
Nicholas,
[quoted text, click to view] > > Why is it that you are adamant about using the filesystem? I ask > because you had the desire to have this used in web applications, and a > file-based database is just going to be crushed under the load in a > web-app with any real load. > I want to use the filesystem because it's easy en cheap. When I'm creating simple websites for maybe 50 - 100 visitors a day, I want to have an easy way of saving data. That's why. So it's pure for saving some content for webpages, or feedback from visitors, or mailaddresses form some kind of newsletter/mailinglist. Jelle
Nicholas,
[quoted text, click to view] > > There is nothing wrong with saving data to the file system, but keep in > mind that ^always^ accessing the data from the files in the file system is > going to be a huge bottleneck for you. > But when I'm using Serialization, my application should perform better, then the object will be in-memory while it's being used, isn't it? And in-memory is the fastest way, I presume? Jelle
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:48:39 +0100, "Jelle de Jong"
<jelle@nospam.hoest.nl> wrote in <47b34992$0$19307$9a622dc7@news.kpnplanet.nl>: [quoted text, click to view] >I want to start a new project, I want to build my own database server For the love of ghu, why? Databases are a seriously thorny area. There are all sorts of concerns, even for a very basic implementation. [quoted text, click to view] >and start very simple. I want to create a file-based database server, >with XML-files. Because you want to guarantee that it's as slow as possible? XML was designed for data exchange, not as a data repository. I know that people constantly abuse it that way (especially Microsoft), but that doesn't mean that you should repeat the mistake. A binary representation would be easy enough to serialize and likely a good bit faster in real world use. [quoted text, click to view] >Does anyone know a good site or book to get some more information >about this kind of project (like 'How to build your own database server')? You'd be better off asking in comp.databases or a similar group. [snip] [quoted text, click to view] >I also want to use/create a SQL like query language to use for querying this >database. I hope that you're comfortable with lexx and yacc or similar tools, as you'll need to build a fairly sophisticated parser. I admire the drive to build something, but I think you'd be better off picking a less complex project. If you're interested in how databases work, grab the source for one of the open source or public domain light databases, such as SQLite <http://www.sqlite.org/> and dig in. Once you've got a handle on that, you can move up to something larger like PostgreSQL <http://www.postgresql.org/>. -- Charles Calvert | Software Design/Development Celtic Wolf, Inc. | Project Management http://www.celticwolf.com/ | Technical Writing
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