We're looking at the possibility of replacing our very old third party
controls, which we used in two Windows apps written in VB6. We've been
using controls from Infragistics (they used to be called Sheridan back when
we purchased them) controls, so we're likely to stay with Infragistics.



Anyway, I'd like to know what NetAdvantage 2005 controls offer, which do not
come "out of the box" with Visual Studio .NET 2005? Budget for us is an
issue, and getting something like the purchase of third party controls is an
uphill battle. For example, if the grids that come with VS .NET 2005 will
allow for editing in the cell with little or no programming, I seriously
doubt that I can convince my supervisor and upper management to purchase
NetAdvantage. We don't need the fancy stuff like grouping, etc.



I appreciate whatever feedback you can give me on this topic. Thank you, in
advance.



Rod

Yuri,

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. I'm not advertising anything.
I don't work for Infragistics, or any other third party controls software
company.

Are you saying something else and I'm just not getting it?

Rod

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The best advice is: ... It is wrong place for advertisements. There are many
other relevant places for it.

Yuri


"Rod" <rodf@newsgroups.nospam> ÓÏÏÂÝÉÌ/ÓÏÏÂÝÉÌÁ × ÎÏ×ÏÓÔÑÈ ÓÌÅÄÕÀÝÅÅ:
news:OylYmF%23CGHA.1180@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
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I'm sure that it's somewhat insulting to Infragistics to suggest that
they would spam in this manner. I have no connection to them except
that I've run a VB user group for over ten years and they (and
Sheridan) were always helpful and never overbearing. The same is true
for Infragistics, they send out emails when they have something to say
but have never been spammers.

As for the OP, Infragistics motto is apparently "powering the
presentation layer" and they have a large variety of nice looking
widgets and stuff that make development easier and the products nice
looking. Making "development easier" is a two-edged sword however.
There are tons of options on their controls and a fairly stiff
learning curve. They do offer training in using their controls, which
should give you a pretty good idea of what can be involved.

I think that they also offer the source code so you can learn by what
they do. I probably don't need to write all this though; all you have

I hope you have better luck with it than I have. No matter what I try, the
Infragistics grid says it has no data when the page renders-- even though
the data previews just fine in design mode.

Randall Arnold

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Hi Arnold,

What version of Infragistics are you using?

Can you show the code you use to populate the Grid? Because I have been
using Infragistics controls for quite some time and the grid always
worked fine for me.

Regards,

PJ

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I'll tell you up front, I'm a biased source, but I hope you can see
some good points in this reply to help you anyway.

The funny thing is, if budget is important, can you afford NOT to
upgrade to third party controls? If you do not, what you may really be
doing is trying to get by with the basic components you receive for
free with your IDE, and justifying this choice by the up-front savings
on the cost of upgrading the components in your toolbox.

So you don't need any fancy features like grouping. But there are just
so many additional advantages, and not just features, to using a good
3rd party grid or other component, that any one single advantage on
its own can justify the $500-or-so per developer that many good 3rd
party component companies charge for their components. In fact, they
can pay for themselves many times over.

Unless of course you are charging your customers by the hour :)

(In that case, why pay for the upgrade to Visual Studio .NET 2005 in
the first place...?)

At Xceed, we make components, and here's 10 reasons we came up with
one day on why it makes dollars and sense to tool yourself properly,
instead of making do with Microsoft's free included Grid, such as the
new DataGridView.

1. Commercial third party grids go far beyond the bare essentials
offered by Microsoft. One reason for this is that companies like Xceed
exist solely to produce components. As a result, the entire
development team focuses on just that kind of software and on what a
given component needs in order to help you get to your finish line
with less time and effort.

2. With Microsoft’s new version of the data grid, you will have to
relearn a completely new design. Xceed’s updates simply extend and
improve on the original, already extensible Xceed grid. Intelligent
choices during initial design phase of Xceed Grid for .NET meant that
it was extensible, and extensible in the right ways, from the start.

3. With a commercial grid, you obtain a constantly and quickly
evolving upgrade path: Xceed has released 8 major updates to its grid
in the time it took Microsoft to improve their original .NET data grid
by releasing DataGridView! In fact, another major upgrade is coming
out later this January.

4. You're moving to Visual Studio .NET from VB6 for a reason. This
could be for a number of reasons. Of the many good reasons to do so, a
lot of those reasons also apply to the question of upgrading your
components. Example: Perhaps you are upgrading to stay up-to-date in
your application's look and feel. Ok - in that case, you definitely
should upgrade your components. That is because commercial components
can incorporate support for new interface styles much sooner than
Microsoft can. For example, Microsoft’s own components only started
supporting the Office 2003 style in late 2005! If Microsoft introduces
yet another style (and this is already on the horizon with Office 12's
new look and feel we saw at the PDC), you’ll either have to wait for
Microsoft or someone else to style and code it, or do it yourself. Or
live yet again with an application that looks like it is one or two
generations behind in look and feel.

5. The technical support offered with Xceed’s components is far more
targeted and can make all the difference on the road to becoming
proficient. And unlike with Microsoft’s support, there are no $245
single-call expenses: Xceed’s Vanguard subscription costs less than
this and gives you priority support for an entire year. Or since I am
posting this on a newsgroup: you don't have to wait an indefinite
amount of time hoping that your question posted on a newsgroup will
get answered.

6. Microsoft itself uses Xceed Grid for .NET in certain commercial and
internal .NET applications. For example, Xceed Grid for .NET is used
extensively in Microsoft Small Business Accounting 2006. If they can
trust the components for something this important, then perhaps you
can too, especially that you say your needs are moderate. And at
sub-$500 pricing, its not like you are paying tens of thousands for
all this reliability and trust.

7. The next version of Microsoft’s data grid will still lack many
important features, including fixed headers and footers, row grouping
and master/detail views, printing, input validation, individually
extensible grid elements, and a WYSIWYG designer (in your case, the
designer would let you finish your low-complexity projects with almost
no coding!)

8. Becoming productive with Xceed Grid for .NET is easy because it
comes with a wide variety of sample applications and includes
excellent documentation. A whole lot more than what you get from
Microsoft. Hundreds and hundreds of pages of how-to's, overviews, with
screenshots and links to examples and samples throughout.

9. Microsoft’s DataGridView will be new, with an unproven track record
and an unknown potential for problems. Xceed’s grid has been around
for over 3 years and is stable, proven, and solid already.

10. You can start using Xceed Grid for .NET now, and it will work with
your .NET 1.1 and 2.0 projects.

....Hope this helps.

On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:01:29 -0700, "Rod" <rodf@newsgroups.nospam>
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--
Alex Leblanc
Xceed Software Inc.
http://www.xceedsoft.com

Check out our advanced .NET zip file and compression library

Rod,

I've been using the MS-supplied controls in VS2003 for 3 years...

Like yourself, I work for a company where budgets are very constrained for
this type of purchase because the value is "hidden" from management. The
point one respondee made regarding productivity is an interesting one. I'd
like to see a whitepaper from an unbiased source comparing "before/without
and after/with" 3rd party controls. I'm sure there probably are
productivity benefits to be had, but how valuable those are will depend on
the constrains on your projects - if required, can you spend some time
extending the basic components to create custom methods and properties? If
so, you may not need the initial extra outlay of 3rd party suites.

I would definitely suggest that before anything else, you get the free
download version(s) of VS Express 2005. This will allow you to more
constructively assess what components in the default toolbox will suit your
requirements or not. There are two versionsof VSE, one for Windows apps,
one for Web apps. You can get a free version of SQL 2005 with these as
well.

The only component we've paid for so far was a calendar control (from Peter
Blum) to use in ASP.NET apps, as the MS calendar seemed very bandwidth
hungry and took ages to load over the ADSL Internet connection we were
using. I do also use a Charting component, but this was free from
carlosag.net - it has some constraints (that can be worked around with some
creativity), but at that price I'm not complaining!

For Windows apps I've managed to make do so far...but that may be partly due
to low End-User expectations (I work for a health service company mostly
with clinical staff who don't care about cutting-edge UI).

I do also use the DAAB from the Microsoft Patterns & Practices Enterprise
Library to abstract the data access to SQL. It makes jobs very easy, such
as loading another table into an existing dataset.

Hope that helps.

Al.



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