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macromedia flash sitedesign
group:charging for services
macromedia flash sitedesign:
I am a self taught novice/advanced site designer and have never really looked
into pricing of flash website design. Can anyone help me out with some estimation of what a site should cost or a breakdown of design fees that may be used? I appreciate the help. I do this on the side and have had some people ask to pay me and I realized i have no idea what the going rate would be. Josh
Hi Josh,
Being a new college graduate, based on what we were told leaving classes into the main world. A jr. developer setting out to do freelance work can usually charge about $50.00 an hour, sometimes a little less, but $50.00. If you're looking to build your portfolio, and don't have too too much work (with $50.00 sounding a little high) under your belt yet, try starting off lower. When I started doing freelance work, my first job paid $12.00 bucks an hour. It's not a lot, but it gets started. A lot also has to do with a portfolio. With a drop dead gorgeous portfolio, you can easily charge $50.00 (and have a reason to back it up), but if it's a little lacking, with some less-then average work (which is to be expected being a jr. developer) try to go a little lower and build your way and work up. You need to be careful not to oversell yourself, or undersell. As a result, assuming your portfolio is good(not great but good) start off with $20.00-25.00 dollars an hour. If it's average, 15-20 dollars, and if in your mind it sucks 10-15. A lot has to do with your portfolio, but that's what I've learned while in school.
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> I am a self taught novice/advanced site designer and Out of interest, what does 'novice/advanced' mean? Very difficult to say what you should charge. Depends on experience, where you are located, who you are working for, what kind of work you are doing for them etc etc -- ------------------------------- Remove '_spamkiller_' to mail -------------------------------
I know some top-notch web designers/developers in big US cities that get at least $100p/h - but
remember the are top-notch and very sought after. If you aren't busy and have clients lined up around the block, then you may not have the skills or exposure and will price yourself out of the market at that rate. If you are starting out, you will probably want to charge much less - but it really comes down to how much you need to survive which is based on where you live and your lifestyle. Your skill level is also a factor on price - "novice/advanced" just doesn't help explain that - but nobody here will tell you "Yeah, charge this much..." = it is up to you to decide based on your needs and skills and then that amount may vary with each client and their budgets. hope this helps. ****************************************** --> **Adobe Certified Expert** --> www.mudbubble.com --> www.keyframer.com [quoted text, click to view] Pristine Pixels wrote:
> Hi Josh, > > Being a new college graduate, based on what we were told leaving classes into > the main world. A jr. developer setting out to do freelance work can usually > charge about $50.00 an hour, sometimes a little less, but $50.00. If you're > looking to build your portfolio, and don't have too too much work (with $50.00 > sounding a little high) under your belt yet, try starting off lower. > > When I started doing freelance work, my first job paid $12.00 bucks an hour. > It's not a lot, but it gets started. A lot also has to do with a portfolio. > With a drop dead gorgeous portfolio, you can easily charge $50.00 (and have a > reason to back it up), but if it's a little lacking, with some less-then > average work (which is to be expected being a jr. developer) try to go a little > lower and build your way and work up. > > You need to be careful not to oversell yourself, or undersell. As a result, > assuming your portfolio is good(not great but good) start off with $20.00-25.00 > dollars an hour. If it's average, 15-20 dollars, and if in your mind it sucks > 10-15. > > A lot has to do with your portfolio, but that's what I've learned while in > school.
Hi Josh,
What seems to work for me is if I know exactly the deliverables, meaning the client knows exactly what he wants, I would charge a flat fee based on how many hours I think I might take and add another 20% on top... I must admit I do look at the client's pocket first (bad, bad) but if I am dealing with a big company I raise my price. If it is a start up or a project that would be fun to work but no budget, I don't mind lowering the rate depending on the work load. Even if you give them a hourly rate they still want to know how many hours anyway but I hate to have to work and be creative worrying about the time. Of course you need to be very careful with that.. if you get a PIDA client who is never happy, this process would actually cost you money. But like Peter said, it depends on location, experience and the client.
Top notch, advanced, novice is still subjective. I'd like to be able to see the portfolios that would rank in either case to have a clearer idea. Any available?
Josh,
Check out this article. This process works well for any creative professional. Great resource. http://www.blueflavor.com/ed/tips_tricks/pricing_a_project.php
We price per-project. We figure out about how long we think it will take us,
then give the potential client a "flat fee". Clients LOVE this! and as often as we end up taking too much time on things we didn't charge enough for, we spend not as much time on others that we get paid more for, so it all equals out. It also gives people the site they really want... since when you're going 'by the hour' sometimes people will "settle" for a site just to stop you from charging more... which means they're not really truly 100% happy with it, and your word-of-mouth score goes down. Every client we have LOVES their site... and talks it up to all their friends... which brings us more clients and more flat fees. :) Of course those flat fees are based on an hourly rate, at which point I agree with all else that was said here. And thanks for the great article [b]Brad at KT Video![/b]
:)
this is fun. But, given what you said, you based your rates on 2 different projects requiring varied amount of work. The 2 prices don't relate at all - especially from the client's perspective. For you, in terms of net profits, you estimated $400 of labor and spent $1300 in terms of your time - so in the end, you lost $900 in earnings. :) [quoted text, click to view] parkeast wrote:
> Let me see if I can help out here. > > Client A gets a quote for a project that will cost $100. > We spend $1,000 worth of time on client A's project. > Client A therefore gets more than they paid for. > > Client B also gets a quote for $300. > We spend $300 worth of time on client B's project. > Client B therefore got what they paid for... > However, they paid MORE than client A, and we have spent less time than we > spent on client A's project. > > Make sense? > Sorry for the confusion.
:)
i agree 100% [quoted text, click to view] parkeast wrote:
> I just think of "happy clients". :) If we're able to continue to do this job > (working from home and setting my own hours and everything else) I count that
btw, as a fulltime freelancer - it is true that the time estimated and the time it ends up actually
taking, is rarely the same. -c [quoted text, click to view] parkeast wrote:
> Yeah, I see your point. > > I just don't think of "money lost" on things. > > I just think of "happy clients". :) If we're able to continue to do this job > (working from home and setting my own hours and everything else) I count that > as a blessing worth far more than any price tag. So again, everyone's happy. :) > > I like the way you think though! > http://www.ferenginews.com! :D
That's my point... no one overpays, either they pay what the project was worth,
or they get a lot more than they paid for, either way they win... and either way I don't care. If I had a place to live and food everyday I would do this job for free... it's not the money. And it's making my customers happy that makes me happy... if they were to pay more than what something was worth they wouldn't be happy. Understandably it's hard to reconcile I know... but that's the way it is. :)
LOL,
mudbubble is all me im afraid. [quoted text, click to view] parkeast wrote:
> Yeah... agreed on that too. > > And hey... if you have anything to do with MudBubble... I love all your stuff!!! LOVE IT!! :) >
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> and as often > as we end up taking too much time on things we didn't charge enough for, we > spend not as much time on others that we get paid more for, so it all equals > out. Except for the clients who have ended up over paying for your services of course. -- ------------------------------- Remove '_spamkiller_' to mail -------------------------------
Let me see if I can help out here.
Client A gets a quote for a project that will cost $100. We spend $1,000 worth of time on client A's project. Client A therefore gets more than they paid for. Client B also gets a quote for $300. We spend $300 worth of time on client B's project. Client B therefore got what they paid for... However, they paid MORE than client A, and we have spent less time than we spent on client A's project. Make sense? Sorry for the confusion.
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> That's my point... no one overpays, either they pay what the project was worth, > or they get a lot more than they paid for That doesn't make sense. In your previous post, you explicitly state: "we spend not as much time on others that we get paid more for". So, you have given a project quote based on the number of hours you estimate a project will take. The project takes less time than estimated, but the client pays the full price. Therefore, the client has over paid. -- ------------------------------- Remove '_spamkiller_' to mail -------------------------------
Yeah, I see your point.
I just don't think of "money lost" on things. I just think of "happy clients". :) If we're able to continue to do this job (working from home and setting my own hours and everything else) I count that as a blessing worth far more than any price tag. So again, everyone's happy. :) I like the way you think though! http://www.ferenginews.com! :D
Yeah... agreed on that too.
And hey... if you have anything to do with MudBubble... I love all your stuff!!! LOVE IT!! :)
It's a pleasure. :)
I'm Noel from http://www.parkeastinc.com/ And that http://www.ferenginews.com is mine too... though it's not really Flash at all. Yeah, you do some amazing stuff, I've had your site bookmarked for quite a while now... years maybe (?) at least A year. Not "client A"... but just the modifier / article "A"... though it could be grade - A too. I digress. Pleased to chat wit 'cha. [i](notice I'm cool because of how I typed that)[/i]
Riiiight! I see - thanks for clarifying :)
what I *thought* you meant was more along the lines of: Client A gets a quote for a project that will cost $100. We spend $1,000 worth of time on client A's project. Client A therefore gets more than they paid for. Client B gets a quote for $300. We spend $100 worth of time on client B's project. So it all evens out in the end. Sorry for the confusion Pete -- ------------------------------- Remove '_spamkiller_' to mail -------------------------------
No, it was my fault completely!
From experience, I think you have to tell the client exactly how many
designs/revisions they can have for that flat fee. We generally estimate now, but when we started we quoted a flat fee but didn't specify how many revisions and designs that covered. Some clients were great, but a few kept on asking for more and more, to the point where we were doing five times the work we quoted for. And when you haven't specified in the beginning it can be very hard to tell a client that they've used up their time. Later we always quoted based on three initial designs and three revisions for their chosen design (anything outside of that was charged at an hourly rate). Then we'd tell them that if they didn't need all that they'd get a little discount at the end. It generally kept them happy and made sure we didn't have problems if they needed extra revisions! Good luck!! Cyan www.thegoodness.com.au
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