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sql server (alternate) : A Game Company in Trouble
(We're in the middle of a name change from "Lamar Games"), www.lamargames.net. Our first commercial game, Andromeda Online (www.andromedaonline.net) is going into beta soon. It runs on an evaluation edition of SQL Server 2000 (our intention is, when it launches, we earn the money to buy a copy before the evaluation expires). We have been testing Andromeda Online, and found that saves to the database take about 10 seconds (we were anticipating less than 1). We felt we need somebody experienced in optimizing sql databases to help us optimize the database, and get it running in the best method for our particular application. Our program accesses the database in Java, and people with understanding in how to optimize java connections would be a tremendous help. My company is small, and we honestly cant afford much. Everybody on this project, from the sound guys to the graphic artist, has worked for 1/10 to 1/100 of the value of the job. We're simply a starting company looking for dedicated people who are willing to work more for credit than money. We can offer credit on our website (http://www.andromedaonline.net/credits.html) to anybody who helps us, but little more (maybe $100, but we're very over budget, and in desperate need of help). Because of how we intend the game to run (with maybe 100-200 concurrent games running online), a 10 second save time is simply unacceptable. Anybody who would be willing to help us, please send a resume to help@andromedaonline.net. Experience would be nice, but not a requirement. We're looking for someone who can talk with our programmer about the types of calls made to our SQL database, and then can log into the DB and optimize it to run as fast as possible considering our specific needs. Thank you for your time. Nick Soutter Aepox (Lamar) Games
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BlackHawke wrote: > We have been testing Andromeda Online, and found that saves to the database > take about 10 seconds (we were anticipating less than 1). We felt we need > somebody experienced in optimizing sql databases to help us optimize the > database, and get it running in the best method for our particular > application. > > > > Our program accesses the database in Java, and people with understanding in > how to optimize java connections would be a tremendous help. Some simple advice, without knowing anything about your application. It's highly unlikely that the problem is related to your use of Java- based interfaces to the database. The problem is almost certainly with the SQL that you are running, and is independent of the means of issuing that SQL to the database itself. An exception applies, though, if you're using some high-level abstraction like an OR mapper that generates the SQL for you. Is this hand-written JDBC and SQL, or something more complex? [quoted text, click to view] > Anybody who would be willing to help us, please send a resume to > help@andromedaonline.net. Experience would be nice, but not a requirement. > We're looking for someone who can talk with our programmer about the types > of calls made to our SQL database, and then can log into the DB and optimize > it to run as fast as possible considering our specific needs. Given your financial constraints, it would perhaps be more prudent for you to take advantage of the advice freely offered on this newsgroup. You'd be expected to take part in finding the solution, by for example putting together test cases and doing some troubleshooting, but if you have a real question about a factual or difficult issue, someone will almost certainly jump in to help. A good place to start is to look over the statements that are issued in a save. Many databases have a logging mode that can capture this info, but if your database doesn't have such a mode or flag, you could do it from the application or with a filter JDBC driver. So to start with the easiest solution, which database are you using? -- www.designacourse.com The Easiest Way to Train Anyone... Anywhere. Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer/Technical Trainer
BlackHawke (blackhawke@legacygames.net) writes:
[quoted text, click to view] > Our first commercial game, Andromeda Online (www.andromedaonline.net) is > going into beta soon. It runs on an evaluation edition of SQL Server > 2000 (our intention is, when it launches, we earn the money to buy a > copy before the evaluation expires). When did you download this evaluation edition? Beware that the original evaluation edition is vulnerable for the Slammer worm. If you go to http://www.microsoft.com/sql you can obtain a version of the Evaluation Edition that is Slammer-safe. [quoted text, click to view] > We have been testing Andromeda Online, and found that saves to the > database take about 10 seconds (we were anticipating less than 1). We > felt we need somebody experienced in optimizing sql databases to help us > optimize the database, and get it running in the best method for our > particular application. What exactly are you saving? Does it take 10 seconds to save a single row to the database? Or does it take 10 seconds to save a player's entire game? The latter could mean a whole lot calls to SQL Server to insert data. If all operations are through INSERT statements sent from the Java code, there is a whole lot to win by using stored procedures. For even higher speed, you could construct an XML document, and then unpack that on the SQL Server side with OPENXML(). You save a lot of network roundtrips that way. -- Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, sommar@algonet.se Books Online for SQL Server SP3 at
To add to everybody else's statements.
Run Profiler against the DB and see exactly what is being sent. If you can get statements out then you can look at the execution plans and perhaps that will point out a reason for the preceived slowness. -- ---------------------------- Allan Mitchell (Microsoft SQL Server MVP) MCSE,MCDBA www.SQLDTS.com I support PASS - the definitive, global community for SQL Server professionals - http://www.sqlpass.org [quoted text, click to view] "Erland Sommarskog" <sommar@algonet.se> wrote in message news:Xns93BC69EEEF67FYazorman@127.0.0.1... > BlackHawke (blackhawke@legacygames.net) writes: > > Our first commercial game, Andromeda Online (www.andromedaonline.net) is > > going into beta soon. It runs on an evaluation edition of SQL Server > > 2000 (our intention is, when it launches, we earn the money to buy a > > copy before the evaluation expires). > > When did you download this evaluation edition? Beware that the original > evaluation edition is vulnerable for the Slammer worm. If you go to > http://www.microsoft.com/sql you can obtain a version of the Evaluation > Edition that is Slammer-safe. > > > We have been testing Andromeda Online, and found that saves to the > > database take about 10 seconds (we were anticipating less than 1). We > > felt we need somebody experienced in optimizing sql databases to help us > > optimize the database, and get it running in the best method for our > > particular application. > > What exactly are you saving? Does it take 10 seconds to save a single > row to the database? Or does it take 10 seconds to save a player's > entire game? > > The latter could mean a whole lot calls to SQL Server to insert data. > If all operations are through INSERT statements sent from the Java > code, there is a whole lot to win by using stored procedures. For even > higher speed, you could construct an XML document, and then unpack that on > the SQL Server side with OPENXML(). You save a lot of network roundtrips > that way. > > > -- > Erland Sommarskog, SQL Server MVP, sommar@algonet.se > > Books Online for SQL Server SP3 at > http://www.microsoft.com/sql/techinfo/productdoc/2000/books.asp
"BlackHawke" <blackhawke@legacygames.net> writes:
[quoted text, click to view] > My Name is Nick Soutter, I am the owner of a small game company, Aepox Games > (We're in the middle of a name change from "Lamar Games"), > www.lamargames.net. > > > > Our first commercial game, Andromeda Online (www.andromedaonline.net) is > going into beta soon. It runs on an evaluation edition of SQL Server 2000 > (our intention is, when it launches, we earn the money to buy a copy before > the evaluation expires). > > > > We have been testing Andromeda Online, and found that saves to the database > take about 10 seconds (we were anticipating less than 1). We felt we need > somebody experienced in optimizing sql databases to help us optimize the > database, and get it running in the best method for our particular > application. You need to find out what it is doing during these 10 seconds. Run some kind of profiling on your progarm to see what it is doing. i.e Opening JDBC connection (if it's doing that), getting a connection from a connection pool (you really should be doing something like that), sending sql statement to server, waiting for server to complete the statement,closing (or releasing) the dabase connection. When you've found out how much time these various things are taking then you can see which parts you need to optimise. [quoted text, click to view] > Our program accesses the database in Java, and people with understanding in > how to optimize java connections would be a tremendous help. > Use pooling so that you don't have to open a connection every time you want to access the database If your problem is tha database then you'll more than likely get improvements by looking at ths SQL you are using and seing if you can rephrase your statement in a btter way (i.e. have a look at any joins you are using and whic table is the driving table in a join, make sure that any table lookups are using indexes etc. ) You'll fidn that any optimistaion you make in this area will make much more of a difference than any tweaking of database parameters that you can do. [quoted text, click to view] > > > My company is small, and we honestly cant afford much. Everybody on this > project, from the sound guys to the graphic artist, has worked for 1/10 to > 1/100 of the value of the job. We're simply a starting company looking for > dedicated people who are willing to work more for credit than money. Good luck with your product, I hope it works out so that all the guys who've been working for little money can start getting very lareg pay-checks [quoted text, click to view] > > We can offer credit on our website > (http://www.andromedaonline.net/credits.html) to anybody who helps us, but > little more (maybe $100, but we're very over budget, and in desperate need > of help). Because of how we intend the game to run (with maybe 100-200 > concurrent games running online), a 10 second save time is simply > unacceptable. > You can have this info for nothing, enjoy :-). Here's some more advice for free. If you've got nobody on your team who knows about databases and their design your design is probably a bit if a mess. It will then probably take a bit more than some tunig to sort out your problems. Just have a look at posts in some of the Oracle newsgroups to get some idea of what professional database people think about letting java programmers loose on databases :-) [quoted text, click to view] > Anybody who would be willing to help us, please send a resume to > help@andromedaonline.net. Experience would be nice, but not a requirement. > We're looking for someone who can talk with our programmer about the types > of calls made to our SQL database, and then can log into the DB and optimize > it to run as fast as possible considering our specific needs. > As someone else posted , get one of the programmers to come on here, but get him/her to read the above first and come ready with answers to the questions above and then getting answers back will be a lot quicker, cheers Phil --
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Phil Britton <phil@phil-britton.com> wrote in message news:<ulluryleo.fsf@phil-britton.com>... > "BlackHawke" <blackhawke@legacygames.net> writes: > > > My Name is Nick Soutter, I am the owner of a small game company, Aepox Games > > (We're in the middle of a name change from "Lamar Games"), > > www.lamargames.net. > > > > > > > > Our first commercial game, Andromeda Online (www.andromedaonline.net) is > > going into beta soon. It runs on an evaluation edition of SQL Server 2000 > > (our intention is, when it launches, we earn the money to buy a copy before > > the evaluation expires). > > > > > > > > We have been testing Andromeda Online, and found that saves to the database > > take about 10 seconds (we were anticipating less than 1). We felt we need > > somebody experienced in optimizing sql databases to help us optimize the > > database, and get it running in the best method for our particular > > application. > > You need to find out what it is doing during these 10 seconds. Run > some kind of profiling on your progarm to see what it is doing. i.e > Opening JDBC connection (if it's doing that), getting a connection > from a connection pool (you really should be doing something like > that), sending sql statement to server, waiting for server to complete > the statement,closing (or releasing) the dabase connection. When you've found > out how much time these various things are taking then you can see which parts > you need to optimise. > > > Our program accesses the database in Java, and people with understanding in > > how to optimize java connections would be a tremendous help. > > > > Use pooling so that you don't have to open a connection every time you > want to access the database > > If your problem is tha database then you'll more than likely get > improvements by looking at ths SQL you are using and seing if you can > rephrase your statement in a btter way (i.e. have a look at any joins > you are using and whic table is the driving table in a join, make sure > that any table lookups are using indexes etc. ) You'll fidn that any > optimistaion you make in this area will make much more of a difference > than any tweaking of database parameters that you can do. > > > > > > > My company is small, and we honestly cant afford much. Everybody on this > > project, from the sound guys to the graphic artist, has worked for 1/10 to > > 1/100 of the value of the job. We're simply a starting company looking for > > dedicated people who are willing to work more for credit than money. > > Good luck with your product, I hope it works out so that all the guys > who've been working for little money can start getting very lareg > pay-checks > > > > > > We can offer credit on our website > > (http://www.andromedaonline.net/credits.html) to anybody who helps us, but > > little more (maybe $100, but we're very over budget, and in desperate need > > of help). Because of how we intend the game to run (with maybe 100-200 > > concurrent games running online), a 10 second save time is simply > > unacceptable. > > > > You can have this info for nothing, enjoy :-). > > Here's some more advice for free. If you've got nobody on your team > who knows about databases and their design your design is probably a > bit if a mess. It will then probably take a bit more than some tunig > to sort out your problems. Just have a look at posts in some of the > Oracle newsgroups to get some idea of what professional database > people think about letting java programmers loose on databases :-) > > > > Anybody who would be willing to help us, please send a resume to > > help@andromedaonline.net. Experience would be nice, but not a requirement. > > We're looking for someone who can talk with our programmer about the types > > of calls made to our SQL database, and then can log into the DB and optimize > > it to run as fast as possible considering our specific needs. > > > > As someone else posted , get one of the programmers to come on here, but > get him/her to read the above first and come ready with answers to the > questions above and then getting answers back will be a lot quicker, > > cheers > > Phil Hi Have noted what you guys are trying to do, and as a DBA and ex-developer, thought I'd try and help point you in the right direction. From the sounds of what you are doing and your tight budget, I guess you're not running the SQL DB on a powerful, multi-processor, multi-GB RAM, multi-SCSI Array system. If this is the case and you're system is modest, then there isn't a great deal you can do for tuning the SQL Server itself. As someone mentioned earlier, you're more likely to get better performance by looking at the way you do your SQL coding - think there is a quote in the O'Reilly T-SQL Programming book, that says "...optimising SQL Server settings only accounts for around 20% of performance improvement, 80% is obtained by tuning your SQL code...". Do you make use of Stored Procedures? This will help, as compared to using SQL code from the Client. Don't use SQL Server Cursors - make sure your code is Set-based (what RDBMS's are designed to run best with). Look into the Metadata structure - are there loads of joins? If so, consider denormalising and test to see if this gives an improvement. Is it the SQL Server that is slow to update? or is it the connection/network link? You might find that the actual writing to the DB is quick and the bottleneck is elsewhere. HTH
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